http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/13/boulder-may-put-brakes-on-speeding-cyclists/
+1 for the baby stroller comment.
We should really find some way to limit the legislative process. Full time legislatures seem to spend a lot of their time on useless, feel good law making like this, or declaring next Tuesday ShortWhiteGuy Day, or otherwise doing things for the benefits of the legislators and no one else.
Maybe having a ballot initiative process where a list of issues is put to a vote and the legislature only gets to work on the issues that were approved by the voters, they are only given a certain amount of time to deliberate on each issue and they go home when they're done.
Poorly written article.
What does "Pedaling through a crosswalk" mean?
Does the mean crossing it perpendicular or does that mean riding in the cross walk?
If it means riding in the cross walk then I can get behind an 8 mph limit since it is to me the equivalent of riding on a sidewalk or MUP.
If they mean you have to slow to 8 mph to cross over a cross walk they are out of their minds.
How did they decide on 8mph, anyway? Seems like a rather arbitrary number. Did they roll two dice and see what the total was?
In NY, cross-walks are for pedestrians. Cyclists need to walk their bikes to use cross-walks. When they are riding, they are considered vehicles.
Are cyclists allowed to use cross-walks in Colorado? If so, this sounds like an attempt to get them to slow down when riding in cross-walks.
Smokey I don't grasp how cyclists are supposed to use cross walks (N.Y. or anywhere) unless they are riding on the sidewalk?
We travel trough crosswalks just like cars.
"The speed limit would only apply when cyclists are pedaling through a crosswalk. Grunig believes if that ordinance is approved, the law could do more harm than good.
“The problem with an 8 mph speed limit is that it blames the victim if they are hit in the crosswalk. Now, if a cyclist is hit in a safety crosswalk they have to prove they were going under 8 mph and that’s not possible,” said Grunig."
So, this is about cyclists riding THRU pedestrian crosswalks, not IN them. Grunig, being a spokesperson for Colorado cyclists, should learn to speak in a way that is comprehensible. His quote above is totally confusing. I don't know the current Colorado statutes, but whatever laws apply to motor vehicles regarding crosswalks should be applied identically to cyclists. Pedestrians in crosswalks almost universially have the right of way...what does a speed limit have to do with anything??? If a cyclists violates a pedestrian's right of way, no matter the speed, they should be ticketed. It seems this proposed ordinance is an attempt to make cyclists slow down to compensate for pedestrians potential lack of awareness, but will it really accomplish that? Seems very odd and pointless...
Bob,
I agree. Bicycles generally do not belong on sidewalks. In NY, it's against the law. That's why I asked about the rules in Colorado.
One possibility with respect to cross-walks: Kids ride bikes too. Sometimes it's safer for them to dismount and walk their bikes in the cross-walk rather than ride through a busy intersection.
As someone who rides and drives through Boulder I can understand the intention. We have a lot of crosswalks through the middle of busy streets - meaning not at intersections. Cars are generally very good at stopping for these, especially locals who are trained to look. The problem with some cyclists, and this is pretty confined to college students I think, is that they'll blaze into the crosswalk without warning. And many of the crosswalks I'm thinking of are connected to bike paths, so you'll see guys full speed swerve into the crosswalk, holding a coffee or texting. The crosswalks at intersections don't have these issues as often.
But probably easier and just as effective to just send some officers to the crosswalks for awhile and set the tone.
It's a poorly written article. The issue is that Boulder has been installing pedestrian crosswalks on busy streets. All of these have clear signs directing cars to stop for peds and many have pedestrian activated flashing lights as well. Many cyclists (mostly college students I think, as mahoba says) have taken to riding through pedestrian crosswalks at full speed, expecting cars to stop. Personally, I don't think cyclists should be riding across these at all. Stop, dismount and walk your bike. If you're in the road, follow traffic laws. If you're in a crosswalk, follow pedestrian laws. Furthermore, anyone who walks or rides across these without watching traffic and making eye-contact with drivers is a fool. Too many drivers blow through these things every day without looking for peds (or cyclists).
I used to live there and now I just stay away from Boulder. It is unbelievable how bicycle-hostile that city and county have become.
Smoke it's legal to ride your bike on the sidewalk in Boulder, at the speed of a pedestrian.
Topmounter agree. It's ridiculous the whole Anemone Hill fiasco blew me away. WTF is wrong with these people, now I know what your average skateboarder feels like. I find it ironic that an alleged "Eco" friendly city makes people drive to MTB, and won't allow a connector trail, on the basis that bikes disturb wildlife. But the trail is open to walkers with dogs and horses.
Inferno7-
Thanks. Maybe the new law (depending on whether it means riding across a cross-walk or riding in a cross-walk across a road) is an attempt to bring the "riding on sidewalk" rule to "riding in cross-walk", but with fast pedestrians.
Matt, if your take on this is correct, then the article is indeed very poorly written. If the issue is that cyclists are using pedestrian crosswalks as a means to cross the street, and they are doing so at above walking speed, then the law is well intentioned and reasonable. I concur with your view that cyclists should probably dismount and walk thru them. But if they choose to ride across, a walking-speed limit is reasonable.
And as Inferno7 eluded to...
It's not any single incident, it's the increasingly caustic anti-cyclist sentiment throughout the City and County of Boulder. Any proposed mountain bike access to new or existing trails gets met with vitriolic opposition that would make you think someone proposed building a nuclear power plant in downtown Boulder. Anytime a road cyclist is injured or killed, the automatic (and nearly universal) assumption is that the cyclist "did something wrong" and the general attitude is "One less cyclist" or "That will teach them". And what makes it worse still is that I see any number of my local mountain biking community jumping on the anti road cyclist bandwagon and vice versa.
As a (nearby) local, Boulder is and has always been what it is and I don't expect it to change, but what drives me nuts is that it is still seen externally as this bicycle-friendly mecca, when nothing could be further from the truth.
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I'm certain the issue here isn't the safety of the pedestrian in the crosswalk, it's the safety of the cyclist.
Cyclists using the crosswalk to cross the street at normal cycling speeds, say 15mph, can surprise approaching motorists leaving them little time to stop. It seems natural that the law instruct cyclists to slow down and be seen.
I recall from my Traffic Engineering course (at CU Boulder, ironically) that the normal walking speed is considered 4 mph (for signal timing purposes). They must have decided to double that, to 8 mph, as the limit for cyclists.
To require cyclist to cross at walking speeds is a bit difficult, it's hard to control a bike at slow speeds, and dismounting is always a pain. All-in-all, I think the People's Republic of Boulder did OK with the law.
please note that it's because of smith025's spam that this 1 year old discussion has popped back up to the top of the list. not to diminish Prof's contribution just that it's old news.
Jacques, this thread was so old that I was reading my own posts and not remembering that I wrote them! (senior moments are occuring way too frequently these days...)
deleted.
wow. RND...just realized this was a year old post as well. How does this happen.
So yea it's a year old post, did the law pass?
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