Follow Up to Competition, when a healthy activity becomes less so

  1. george

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    Received Dr. Gabe Mirkins Weekly newsletter today, seems he is at odds with
    Dr. James H. O'Keefe findings that too much exercise could be detrimental to your health.

    Dr. Gabe Mirkin's Fitness and Health e-Zine
    December 9, 2012

    Healthy Older People Can and Should Compete in Endurance Events

    An editorial in the January 2013 British medical journal,
    Heart, states that "Running too fast, too far, and for too many
    years may speed one's progress toward the finish line of life."
    The author bases his opinion on two recent reports presented at
    medical meetings:
    * DISTANCE: One study of 52,600 people followed for 30 years
    showed that runners had a 19 percent lower death rate than non
    runners, but those who ran more than 25 miles a week did not live
    longer than non-runners.
    * SPEED: Another study showed that runners who ran slower than
    eight miles per hour lived longer than non-runners, but those who
    ran faster than 8 MPH did not live longer.
    These two studies are far too limited to make you think that
    older people should limit how much and how intensely they
    exercise. THEY APPEAR TO SHOW THAT INTENSE OLDER RUNNERS DO NOT
    GAIN AN ADVANTAGE OVER NON-RUNNERS. THEY DO NOT SHOW THAT RUNNING
    IS HARMING THEM. No reasonable physician should use just this
    data to recommend limiting exercise in older people. Overwhelming
    evidence shows that exercise helps prevent and treat obesity, high
    blood pressure, diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, and certain
    cancers, and helps to prolong life.
    I am 77 years old and ride a bicycle more than 200 miles per
    week, race three times a week at 20 MPH, do interval training once
    a week, and lift weights seven days a week. I have no plans to
    change my training.
    James H. O'Keefe, a cardiologist in Kansas City who was an
    elite triathlon athlete, summarizes his concerns about older
    people exercising far and fast (Mayo Clinic Proceedings (June
    2012;87(6):587-595). He believes that too much exercise damages
    the heart and arteries by:
    1) causing heart muscle to release enzymes (troponin and B-type
    natriuretic peptide) into the bloodstream, a sign of heart damage.
    2) scarring the heart muscle
    3) increasing calcium plaques in the large arteries
    4) causing irregular heartbeats, in particular atrial
    fibrillation.
    He is concerned about these findings in spite of the fact
    that he has no data to show that older exercisers are harmed by
    these changes. Overwhelming data show that exercisers have lower
    rates of disability and death (Arch Intern Med, 2008;168(15):1638-1646),
    and are healthier and live more than seven years longer than
    non-exercisers (Med Sci Sports Exerc., 1993;25(2):237-244).
    REFUTING HIS ARGUMENTS COLLECTIVELY: The apparent heart
    damage is the same type of muscle damage that is seen in the
    skeletal muscles of trained athletes. Here is why these changes
    are as beneficial to the heart muscle as they are to the skeletal
    muscles.
    Every serious athlete learns that all training is done by
    "stressing and recovering". IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A MUSCLE STRONGER,
    YOU HAVE TO EXERCISE SO INTENSELY THAT YOU DAMAGE THAT MUSCLE.
    Then when the muscle heals, it is stronger than before it was
    damaged. So, knowledgeable athletes:
    * Take a hard workout that damages their skeletal muscles. They
    know this because they feel burning during exercise, and soreness
    in their muscles eight to 24 hours after this intense workout.
    * Then they take less intense workouts for as many days as it
    takes for the muscles to heal and the soreness to go away. If they
    do not take easier workouts on the days when their muscles are
    sore, they often injure themselves.
    So workouts for knowledgeable athletes in all sports
    typically alternate one or more days of intense workouts with as
    many easy workouts as needed to allow recovery.
    REFUTING EACH POINT INDIVIDUALLY:
    1) HEART MUSCLE RELEASES ENZYMES (TROPONIN AND B-TYPE
    NATRIURETIC PEPTIDE) INTO THE BLOODSTREAM, A SIGN OF HEART DAMAGE:
    This is the training effect that you expect from proper exercise
    training. If you don't "damage" a skeletal muscle, it will not
    become stronger. If you don't "damage" the heart muscle, it will
    not become stronger. These enzymes that leak from the heart muscle
    into the bloodstream return to normal in less than a week, in the
    same manner that enzymes from damaged skeletal muscles return to
    normal in the same amount of time.
    2) SCARRING OF THE HEART MUSCLE: The "scarring" of heart
    muscle is the same as the scarring in skeletal muscles. It
    disappears after the muscle heals and is necessary for muscles to
    become stronger. (Refer to the parts of muscles in the picture at
    http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~sjjgsca/MuscleSarcomere.gif ). Skeletal
    muscles are composed of thousands of muscle fibers. Each fiber is
    a long rope made up of a series of thousands of similar blocks
    called sarcomeres, lined end to end to form a long chain. Each
    block attaches to the next sarcomere at the "Z line". Muscles
    function by shortening a little bit at each of the thousands of "Z
    lines". The "Z lines" all shorten simultaneously and the entire
    muscle then can contract. The "Z lines" are where muscles are
    damaged. It is damage to these "Z lines that causes muscle growth
    after healing, which makes muscles stronger.
    3) INCREASED CALCIUM PLAQUES IN THE LARGE ARTERIES: Plaques
    in arteries may have more to do with the diet of endurance
    athletes than their exercise programs. High mileage athletes burn
    far more calories each day than do casual exercisers. Therefore,
    they have to eat far more food in order to have the energy to
    power their muscles during training. The extra food that athletes
    eat is likely to contain far more saturated fat, sugar, high
    glycemic-load foods, red meat, sugared drinks, and calories. All
    of these food components can increase the formation of plaques in
    arteries. Therefore, it is probably the increased intake of
    plaque- forming foods, and not the extra mileage, that may negate
    some of the benefits of long and hard exercise. Athletes who eat
    huge amounts of food and restrict these unhealthful components
    should have almost no plaques at all. I think that future studies
    will demonstrate that the increased deposition of plaques has
    nothing to do with running more miles or faster miles.
    4) IRREGULAR HEART BEATS, IN PARTICULAR ATRIAL FIBRILLATION:
    At this time, we do not know if there really is an increased risk
    for irregular heartbeats in endurance athletes. All we know is
    that older competitive athletes suffer from irregular heartbeats
    just as younger athletes and non-athletes do. Furthermore, we
    have no evidence that older athletes are at increased risk for the
    harmful side effects of irregular heartbeats: fainting, accidents
    or sudden death.
    The main concern about atrial fibrillation is that the
    patients are at increased risk for clotting in general and strokes
    in particular. However, nobody has shown that older endurance
    athletes with atrial fibrillation are at increased risk for
    clotting or strokes.
    Dr. O'Keefe himself writes: "Sudden cardiac death among
    marathoners is very rare, with one event per 100,000
    participants." Here are two of his references: Med Sci Sports
    Exerc. 2012;44(6):990-994; N Engl J Med . 2012;366(2):130-140.
    BENEFITS OF ENDURANCE EXERCISE IN ALL AGE GROUPS: Dr
    O'Keefe is completely honest and reasonable in listing the
    following ways exercise helps to prevent and treat heart attacks:
    * Increases the good HDL cholesterol
    * lowers triglycerides
    * treats obesity
    * lowers high blood pressure
    * Improves insulin sensitivity
    * lowers blood sugar
    * strengthens arteries
    * helps with smoking cessation
    * reduces psychological stress
    * lowers hematocrit and blood viscosity
    * expands blood volume
    * prevents clotting
    * increases blood flow to the heart
    * increases collateral circulation to the heart
    * increases tolerance of decreased blood flow to the heart
    * reduces atherosclerosis
    * enlarges arteries leading to the heart
    * reduces major sickness and death
    MY LAST WORD ON THE SUBJECT: I am 77 years old and plan to
    continue riding my bicycle 200 miles a week.
    Note: I have sent this to the Wall Street Journal in
    response to their article, "One Running Shoe in the Grave",
    November 27, 2012.

    ************************

    Posted 5 months ago
  2. Professeur

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    Physiological reasoning aside (I defer to the Dr.'s expertise on those matters), I must disagree with the good doctor's argument based on a simple premise.

    If moderate exercise shows a statistical improvement in lifespan but intense exercise statistically erases those improvements, it can only be concluded that somehow, someway, and in some manner the practice of intense exercise effectively reduces your lifespan.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
    Posted 5 months ago
  3. Serotta94

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    And unless it's buried in there somewhere, they don't controll for other factors. People who exercise, on the whole, probably eat better than people who don't. Smoking? Wearing your seatbelt? Flossing daily? So many things that these studies don't measure and control go into keeping you alive longer that they are all but useless IMO.

    Posted 5 months ago
  4. george

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    An active lifestyle in moderation while eating healthy, that's me. A slacker but a coward toward the inevitable thus I practice abstinence instead of giving in to my cravings,missing all those yummy things most folks digest.

    Posted 5 months ago
  5. Serotta94

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    You want to increase your chances of living longer? Wear a helmet in the bathroom.

    Posted 5 months ago
  6. cerv

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    "If moderate exercise shows a statistical improvement in lifespan but intense exercise statistically erases those improvements, it can only be concluded that somehow, someway, and in some manner the practice of intense exercise effectively reduces your lifespan"

    repeat 10 times after me professeur. "correlation does not equal causation"

    Posted 5 months ago
  7. Burlap Chamois

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    Article written in a Fox NewsCorp. rag that would see people as sheep to be controlled. To that end, perpetrating the idea that those who seek to elevate themselves are actually dangerous to themselves and their ideas to others around them.

    Posted 5 months ago
  8. Sustanon

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    @Bobsiwre......but why live 5 years longer eating rabbit food and green tea every day compared to the average Joe who eats ice cream and drinks beer? It's not about quantity but quality.

    I almost T-boned a car the other day going 60 mph when this car in the opposite lane decided to make a left turn out of the blue. The driver was either on a kamikaze mission or drunk. You can eat healthy and exercise all you want, but accidents, slip and falls at home, and getting shot while withdrawing money at an ATM will neutralize that spinach and yogurt elixir you rely on.

    Posted 5 months ago
  9. lochness

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    Live life to the fullest. If that life is 5 years shorter, because I pop off early due to a heart attack rather than lingering on in a long struggle with lung cancer, so be it. Personally, I'm hoping to go in my sleep, unexpectedly, sometime long after my book is completed and grandchildren off to college, and after the greens have won the presidential election. but if that's not in the cards, no big whoop.

    Posted 5 months ago
  10. Professeur

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    //repeat 10 times after me professeur. "correlation does not equal causation" //

    Better yet, I will repeat 10 times "cerv has no idea what he's talking about."

    Don't lecture me on statistical research. It was the heart of my dissertation.

    The point is, in case it slipped your mental grasp, the study has shown a definitive statistical correlation. Though the correlation may not point to a specific cause (it rarely does since there are a multitude of factors involved), there is none the less correlation that cannot be ignored.

    The arguments about the two doctors involved center around the potential causation, but that is secondary to the point that the correlation does exist. To argue it doesn't, merely because no precise link has been established, is foolish.

    There are many such studies in the medical field that lead to warnings about the consequences of a particular behavior before the cause is completely understood.

    Posted 5 months ago
  11. cerv

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    woah, lighten up. I should have put a winky next to that one.

    anyway,
    not ignoring that a correlation exists, or that its worth exploring further. just saying its really bad science to make the logical jump from that study to then assume no confounding variables and assume cause. You implied it was causal when you said it can only be concluded that somehow, someway, and in some manner the practice of intense exercise effectively reduces your lifespan`.
    That`s bad science.

    Tall people have bigger vocabularies. Small babies have small vocabularies. As they grow taller their vocabularies increase. It can only be concluded that somehow, someway, and in some manner that being taller increases vocabulary.

    Posted 5 months ago
  12. george

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    Well it's a known fact,tall people per capita make more money than short people,oh and bigger dicks too. But do they live longer?

    Posted 5 months ago
  13. lochness

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    well, Bob, if I had a bigger dick, I think I could certainly live with exchange of a few years less of life...

    Posted 5 months ago

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