Top of the line bikes

  1. TheShortWhiteGuy

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    Like I always say "WWBD?" Does Bob have that much invested in his entire stable?

    I kind of look at bikes like I look at camera equipment - I could "find" a way to justify the purchase of the Canon 1Dx + 400mm 2.8, or the Canon 1Dc (4k Red system). But, would spending 10-20k make me the immediate money? No it wouldn't, because my current business model doesn't call for those tools. My business would be better served to buy a couple of "pro-sumer" camera kits (with decent lenses), a few light kits, and some one or two L glass type lenses (to replace the others that are worn out).

    I would rather have one or two bikes (don't have to be high end) that are the same make, model and size, with same gruppos, and a few extra wheelsets of various sizes.

    Life is too short to be small. - Disraeli

    So, why not be petty? - The Short White Guy™
    Posted 5 months ago
  2. Kameron

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    Fellas: Like I said - I started with a CAAD 3 back in the 90s, upgraded to Litespeed enhanced carbon and finally Magnesium, so I know the quality of rides. I’ve ridden a hilly 104 mile loop with long stretches of flats on all three bikes and notice improved climbing, comfort, sprinting and average speed with the Magnesium, hence my question as how much better could a $10k bike be. Will I be able to increase my average speed by at least 2MPH? I don’t care if you can afford it or not, I was merely looking for some justification and reasoning if there is one.

    OC – I was putting on new pedals when I decided to take the picture ( Look Keo pedals)

    Jah – I like the way you think and will relay your message to the Jacka*#%^$%, who insulted my intelligence.

    Bodynazi – Just because you can afford it doesn’t mean you have to buy it. I was looking more for technical rather than financial reasoning. After all it’s only metal and rubber (Magnesium in my case) unlike your car or stove, but I am very happy for your recovery and to be celebrating life with a bicycle.

    +1 Nightfend – Love the Eastons, seconds on a thirty mile crit is not going to win me a races, jumps to sprint faster will at the local BAR races, so thanks. I’m keeping them.

    Appreciate all the feedback. If it wasn’t for the comfort of Magnesium I would have probably gone with an average carbon but the comfort is equal to none and all this leaves to me believe that once you reach a certain quality very little can be improved.

    Fanks yall Merry Christmas and Bingle Jells

    Posted 5 months ago
  3. watermoccasin

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    //I doubt that any of us on this forum can honestly say that our cycling performance would be dramatically enhanced by a new $10,000+ ride.

    And wearing a $5,000 - $50,000 Rolex won't make you show up on time any more than glancing at your iPhone or wearing a Timex. Sometimes it IS about the bike (or the watch).

    Posted 5 months ago
  4. bodynazi

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    well about going 2 mph faster and/or 'buying speed'....

    an aero bike will save 35W at 45K

    'real' aero wheels (dump those eastons!) will save you at least another 20W

    That new slick Giro helmet will save 10W

    Aero road bars will save you 5W

    Shoe covers = 5 W

    Shaving your forearms = 1 W

    Getting your chest/back down a few degrees more will save many many Ws

    so you can 'buy' near 100W of power savings - and if you're riding along at a spirited pace at 300 - you can be working 1/3 less than everyone else.

    With enough aero gear ($$) you should be able to ride up a category or 2 with zero more training.

    So yes, that Specialized Venge at 18-large will indeed allow you to go probably 3+ more MPH on your rides.

    :)

    Posted 5 months ago
  5. iamus72

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    What was your friends response to your "crappy" bike after you dropped him on the first climb or sprint? I'm with KR. These things don't pedal themselves and life is too short to ride with asshats. Of course maybe your friend was just ribbing you.

    My bike looks expensive but it wasn't. I just spend a lot of time looking for the right deals when I'm upgrading. But I treat each bike build as a project to see how great a bike I can get for the budget I have.

    Plus I'm way beyond trying to impress my riding friends. Some who have the all-crabon frames and I still drop them on climbs riding my 6 year steel frame. It doesn't diminish my riding pleasure. And yes I understand the difference between quality and price.

    Posted 5 months ago
  6. dkri

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    You're well past the point of diminishing returns on that bike, for sure. One could say that more bike would simply be chasing the asymptotes. The difference between a good and bad position on that bike trumps all the accumulated equipment gains left to get.

    To put it in perspective, riding my 23 lb 29er on the road, with heavy ass 2.1" tires, cruising speed is ~ 18 mph. On a 16.5 lb cx bike with 33mm Fangos, it's maybe 19.5. On 15.5 lb road bike with 23mm Michelin ProRace 4 Endurance tires, it's right around 21. There is no gain above your bike that would equate to anything like dropping a pound of tire weight, and more importantly a crap ton of added rolling resistance and aero loss at the wheels. No road bike would give you anything like a 2mph bump in speed.

    A full TT setup would give you 2mph over that bike as is.

    The only problem in the world I have with the "ultra premium" bike class is as a perceived barrier to entry to the sport - when people think they NEED a full carbon superbike with crazy wheels just to get into Cat 5 racing. I wouldn't QUITE say that bike $$ is inversely proportional to category, but around here it's getting there.

    Love the blue. LOVE the blue.

    **edit** this reply was sitting open on the screen while I did other stuff. I respectfully very much disagree with BN's summation.

    For disclosure purposes, I am a partner in November Bicycles. This fact probably colors everything I say. I'm clearly not to be trusted.
    Posted 5 months ago
  7. Kameron

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    +1 dkri - BN has a point but doesn't apply to my case.

    iamus72: Actually not a friend but "he knows everything" dude that I know from regular rides said I should have spent the extra cash and got the Dogma2 carbon, as the ride would have been more plush. He rides a Felt !!

    Posted 5 months ago
  8. Keith RIchards

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    dkri, one of things I miss most about racing and being in good form was handing the dude with the carbon bike and gucci wheels a good ass whuppin' on my steel bike. A guy on my team has a Calfee Tetra. I wanted him gone FIRST. lol!

    I remember one of my racing buddies said to me when I was thinking about upgrading my Ritchey saying, "looking for a more frame stiffness, eh?" I responded, "all the stiffness in the world won't help lack of form, dude."

    You can waste time focusing on minutiae on your bike or you can dig into your workouts and find more form. I prefer the latter.

    It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
    Posted 5 months ago
  9. Cosmic Kid

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    Why not do both? They are not mutually exclusive....

    Just say "NO!!" to WCP!

    "Want to get faster? Work harder, eat better, cut the crap. Instead of talking the talk, work the work"
    Posted 5 months ago
  10. PlanB

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    Speaking for myself, I can say with certainty that a $10,000 bike would not improve my performance. How do I know this? Because a $1,500 bike has failed to improve my performance. I suck at any price-point.

    Posted 5 months ago
  11. Berzin

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    I don't understand the resentment towards others with more expensive bikes.

    Isn't it enough to enjoy the ride and the great outdoors, or is it some sort of settling of scores with persons unknown who spend top dollar on their equipment?

    I don't understand this type of resentment, and it's exactly what puts people off to the sport, as much as it does when cats overly obsess about their equipment and berate others for not being able to afford the best, which I can say doesn't happen NEARLY as much as the aforementioned scenario.

    Posted 5 months ago
  12. Cosmic Kid

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    I don't think it is resentment as much as head-scratching......I surely don't resent them, as they play a vital role in the economic health and development cycle in the bike industry.

    Posted 5 months ago
  13. dkri

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    I'll just quote myself in answer to Berzin's question:

    "The only problem in the world I have with the 'ultra premium' bike class is as a perceived barrier to entry to the sport - when people think they NEED a full carbon superbike with crazy wheels just to get into Cat 5 racing." (end)

    But it's also a two-way street - witness the snobbery that Kameron expressed in his OP. As long as your bike works and it's not going to blow up and cause an issue or danger in a pack situation, I could not care less what you choose to ride.

    Posted 5 months ago
  14. Keith RIchards

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    My reasoning is a version of what dkri said.

    If a person wants a high end bike to ride and cruise around on, go for it.

    One of my investment banker friends just picked up his and hers Specialized Roubaix/Tarmac rides for himself and his wife. Happy for him, can't wait to go out riding with him.

    My problem is when guys who RACE purchase these high end bikes as if they are a substitute for the skills and fitness to be able to play the game.

    But for me this goes all the way back to being a 12/13 year old BMX racer. My boys and I didn't have a lot of money, we raced in jeans and long sleeve t-shirts. But we practiced hard and spent out time on the track. Every spring it would be the same thing. Some spoiled kid would show up on the Redline with the best of everything, JT pants with factory Redline logos, matching checkered vans, Bell helmet...the whole nine. Then they leave the course crying after they got crashed out because they didn't know how to follow the racing line or how to protect their position.

    When I used to play open court basketball as a middle schooler you saw the same thing. Dude shows up with the new Jordans that he just brought, has his Nike warmup suit, Nike sweatband for his dome...what, you never played in a league and hardly ever run full court? Well, you are in for a long night of being double teamed and getting your jumper slapped into the stands then.

    I am dealing with a version of this now with my son and his soccer. He spends hours looking at soccer cleats, always wants the newest Adidas or Nikes (gotta have the kangaroo leather dad!). As soon as the UEFA cup ball comes out every year, he has to have it. Is he spending hours working on his off foot? Nope. Working on his foot speed? Nope.

    Got no problem with people dropping mad loot on their sport. I have a problem with competitors (especially at the level 95% of us compete at) thinking that money will get them something that skills won't.

    Posted 5 months ago
  15. nightfend

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    I must be vain, but if I only cared about performance, I'd get a November carbon bike or something similar from Taiwan. But, I buy my bikes because I like the way they look and yes for their name-brand. Same reason I buy the top-line component groups when Force or Ultegra would be fine.

    Posted 5 months ago
  16. Keith RIchards

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    Yeah, you are vain...lol. Nothing wrong with that. Why do you think I had my Ritchey custom painted? :^)

    Posted 5 months ago
  17. PlanB

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    Berzin, not resentment. Some puzzlement, surely; some minor sadness perhaps. It works both ways. I have occasionally noted unmistakable pity directed towards me from recreational riders adorned with very expensive equipment. (And it's not as if I ride junk by any means; it's thoroughly and lovingly maintained, yet neither new, nor flash when it was new, nor conspicuously contrived for anything other than heavy training kilometers).

    I'm not sure if they view me as poor or as simply clueless, neither of which is the case. On the other hand I don't care. I'm not riding to please them. I have a friend, a former student, who is sometimes among these threads, who gets enraged — adorably on my behalf — when she witnesses these moments of 'untouchability'. She sees class wars where I see people just trying to find their identities in a world in which identity is increasingly not a spiritual or intellectual thing but a commodified thing, an image thing.

    But as to who is impressing whom — I know what sketches me: not guy with a $10,000 bike and $400 shoes, but someone in non-matching kit on a semi-beater with mudguards and MA-40s. Which is to say, myself.

    Posted 5 months ago
  18. archistu

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    @KR - I played soccer in college with a guy who always wore no-name cleats that were usually being held together with Shoe Goo by the end of the season. They were crap. But he was awesome. The shoes were just a tool to keep him from slipping around on the field, and as long as they did that he was fine with them. Didn't care one lick who made them or how beat up they were. Of course the rest of us made fun of him and his shoes endlessly, but I quietly always respected the fact that he knew exactly what was important and had no interest in wasting time or money buying expensive stuff for no other reason than good players were supposed to use expensive stuff.

    Posted 5 months ago
  19. Inferno7

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    +1 Nightfend – Love the Eastons, seconds on a thirty mile crit is not going to win me a races, jumps to sprint faster will at the local BAR races, so thanks. I’m keeping them.

    Jumps to sprints faster than what?

    LeMond VO2 max 95, Armstrong 82....doh
    Posted 5 months ago
  20. Keith RIchards

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    archistu, yeah man. That is what SPORT is all about. It is not about the tools, it is about the craftsman using them. The #1 scorer on my son's team last season was a latino kid who could only afford $30 on sale Nikes.

    I don't really have a lot of respect for tool collectors. I have deep respect for people who are good at their craft.

    Posted 5 months ago
  21. pascal

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    Kameron-that bike is a beaut! I can't believe spending significantly more will do much for you. I would contend that a 3k bike is very close in construction/quality/weight to much pricier models...

    There was an article a few years ago with a US pro who said one of the best race bikes for an amateur racer is the good old Cannondale CAAD 9. I had a CAAD 5 at the time and it was 1800 at wheelworks and was around 18 lbs. a lighter fork/stem/saddle/seatpost brought that weight down significantly and it was a great race bike.

    And like others said, the fitness component is what truly matters...

    Posted 5 months ago

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