Damn Maffetone training program

  1. Cosmic Kid

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    I've spent a fair amount of time this week at the multi-sport training center I joined in November (finally). Gonna net out with 150+ miles for the week....not bad for December!

    ANyhoo...been tryng to go with the whole low HR / Maffetone idea for now...really not easy in these group settings. Today there were only 2 other guys there and we hit the rde pretty quick and we are all pretty even. Downhill to start so no problem, but then hit a few "rollers" and the hR starts creeping up. Goal is to be >134 and I'm hitting low 140's, mid-140's, starting to tickle 150. Not that I was suffering by any stretch, but way out side my HR zone....so I sat up.

    So painful to watch the gap grow between me and the other 2 guys...especially 'cuz I know I could have ridden with 'em just fine.

    But for December, I am pretty pleased with my form and there is zero need for me to be hammering right now anyway. Just gotta learn to keep the ego in check....

    Just say "NO!!" to WCP!

    "Want to get faster? Work harder, eat better, cut the crap. Instead of talking the talk, work the work"
    Posted 4 months ago

  2. dkri

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    You half wheeler! (jk)

    There are only like 3 or 4 people I can effectively train with outside. My one gift, as it is, in cycling is that I freaking rule at doing base miles. Little to no talking, little speeding up, and no slowing down. I wonder what it would be like for me to try to train with others in that environment inside? Probably bad.

    For disclosure purposes, I am a partner in November Bicycles. This fact probably colors everything I say. I'm clearly not to be trusted.
    Posted 4 months ago

  3. Jah

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    scientific training has destroyed the group ride and made an asocial group even more so:)

    rollers? Chicago?

    Posted 4 months ago

  4. Keith RIchards

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    scientific training has destroyed the group ride and made an asocial group even more so...

    lol! Truer words have not been spoken. But there needs to be a happy medium. The guys I enjoyed riding with had an agreement. Once we got warmed up on an early season training ride, it was someone's job to 'call the front'. You were not permitted to go faster than that. If you wanted you could take a longer stint at the front, but not a faster one.

    I was on a team that really pissed me off with their so-called "small ring" early season rides, "look man, if you all are going be out here in your 14t or higher gears, stop BSing that it is a small ring ride, cause it ain't." Same dudes later in the spring/summer get all pissy when I am attacking the group on a group ride...whatever.

    It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
    Posted 4 months ago

  5. dkri

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    Yeah I guess I realize what a dick that post must have made me sound like. The f'd up thing is that I enjoy training like that. Like, I'll do the start of the 10am here to catch up with people and ride out to the good roads chatting and everything, but then I break off and go my own direction. I don't understand how guys who do the group rides at full tilt in the winter can even train during the week - there's always enough guys who are way fit and just smash it, and then I'm shattered until like Thursday.

    And I'm fully a dick, which I'm totally at peace with.

    Posted 4 months ago

  6. Jah

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    yanking chains, but it did give me a laugh

    Posted 4 months ago

  7. Keith RIchards

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    I used to hammer the group ride in the winter because I simply loved it. I would commute Mon/Thurs, take Friday easy or off, and then do the 10am hammerfest in Rock Creek on Saturday. If I felt jiggy Sunday morning, I'd do the 10am again and then take Monday off from commuting.

    But I have always said I look at the whole Saturday group ride hammerfest like basketball players look at showing up on open court night in the inner city. Why'd you show up if you don't wanna ball, ya know?

    So at a certain level, I agree with you. If you don't wanna ball...don't come play. Nothing wrong with shooting around and working on your jumper, to keep the analogy going. But some dudes just LOVE to play full court ball and want to do it as often as possible.

    This gets at the core of this Maffetone training and why I could never do it. I love the road bike because I love the speed. The idea of not going fast on purpose for so long is just against everything I love about "riding fast the racing bicycle" to appropriate Emerson Fittipaldi's description of his love of going fast in cars. I will ride slow until the form allows me to ride fast. Not a second longer, lol!

    Posted 4 months ago

  8. Mike

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    True dat

    scientific training has destroyed the group ride and made an asocial group even more so:)

    I can't go on a group ride any more without hearing someone bitching about the pace. It is funny when I hear one guy bitching that the pace is to fast and another guy bitching that the pace is to slow on the same ride. It's always something about the pace and the time of year. I always say if it's to fast just drop off, if it's to slow fade off the back and chase back on. No one ever does though.

    Why do people always want the group to move at their pace? It's much like life in general.

    Posted 4 months ago

  9. Canucklehead

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    Too funny. I'm starting the Maffetone training, based on these threads, as well but unfortunately have to do it indoors because it's snowy and icy outside right now.

    Posted 4 months ago

  10. Cosmic Kid

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    Oh, I agree 100% that if you are gonna show up on a group ride, you do the ride. No whining about the pace being too slow / hard / whatever. I would never show up for a Sunday AM group ride and expect everyone to follow MY particular plan for the day. When I sow up for a group ride, I plan to [i]ride[/1], ya know?

    Jah, the "rollers" I was referring to were simulated on the Computrainer. You are correct....ain't no rollers 'round here!!

    Was actually kinda pleased I (eventually) had the discipline to sit up and ride my ride. But like I said....tough on the ego. ;-) The other 2 guys also bailed after an hour and I went for 2. 2 hours used to be pure hell on a trainer, but in a group setting it goes by pretty quickly (second hour was "longer" though since I was solo)

    Posted 4 months ago

  11. vtguy

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    CK -- are you doing Maffetone only on the bike or also for running workouts?

    Posted 4 months ago

  12. TheShortWhiteGuy

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    You didn't ride your tt bike for this purpose?

    What do the STr's say?

    Life is too short to be small. - Disraeli

    So, why not be petty? - The Short White Guy™
    Posted 4 months ago

  13. Canucklehead

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    yeah, would you adjust your running HR for approx 20 - 25 bpm faster than a riding HR? i ran a marathon last may and was going to run the same one this year and was wondering how you'd incorporate maffetone into the program for running...? surely it wouldn't be the same as riding HR or would it? damn that would be a slow run...

    Posted 4 months ago

  14. Cosmic Kid

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    Also for running...although I allow myself a slightly higher HR (140ish) for running.

    @ SWG - what do the ST'rs say about what...a Maffetone traning program? FIIK....I'm sure most of them would be aghast at the idea of not training by power. Honestly, it is an adjustment for me as well.

    But it is kinda the same idea as Zone 2 power training, but from the other view. Using a HR program for early season, I can see where my power will continually rise for a given HR (already seeing a difference, BTW). W/ a power-based program, your HR will drop for a given power as your fitness increases. Now, I could do FTP tests to continually adjust my training zones, but I hate FTP testing. ;-)

    And honestly, I don't see the point this early in the year. I know what my FTP will be roughly when I am in shape (~250w). Working in Zone 2 for me is gonna be the same now even with a lower FTP simply because of the range in Zone 2.

    Once I get through March, I'll do my first FTP and see where I net out. Until then, I'm gonna do my best to stay in the mid-130's for HR.

    Posted 4 months ago

  15. C2K_Rider

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    "The other 2 guys also bailed after an hour and I went for 2. 2 hours used to be pure hell on a trainer, but in a group setting it goes by pretty quickly (second hour was "longer" though since I was solo)'

    Geez, two hours on a trainer? That's why god made California...for all those who can't stand to do that!

    I've got next week off and I think I'll be able to get out for at least 5 days of that for some 50 to 70 miles rides.

    "The stone age didn't end because the earth ran out of stones, and the oil age won't end because the earth runs out of oil" -- Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute, rmi.org
    Posted 4 months ago

  16. Cosmic Kid

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    Meh....you added to your post, SWG!!

    Yup, on the TT bike. I want to be in the aero position as much as possible. Funny thing is that my HR goes up about 4-5 bpm in aero for the same wattage....so occasionally I'll sit up to give myself a little power boost and keep my HR the same. ;-)

    @ Canuck - yes, they are VERY slow runs. Currently trotting along @ ~10 min / mile. I am also doing very short, but frequent, runs. I am perfectly happy to run slow for the next few months, if it allows me to build a better foundation. I just finished 9 days in a row of running, which I have never done before. No run was more than 3 miles, but I was never tired either. If all this allows for me to run injury-free, I'll take the slow runs!!

    Posted 4 months ago

  17. steelbikerider

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    very slow rides too. today going into a headwind on the flat - 12mph

    Posted 4 months ago

  18. Cosmic Kid

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    Just checked my weekly reports from Garmin Connect. 6 rides, 10 hours and 192 miles this week. Avg HR.....134. Spot on my target HR.

    Not too shabby for December (at least for me!)

    Posted 4 months ago

  19. steelbikerider

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    Saw this on another forum to back the lower intensity training.
    http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm

    Posted 4 months ago

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