Big Mileage question

  1. thinline

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    So,

    The last couple years on the Saturday closest to the summer solstice I have been riding the Harpoon Brewery to Brewery Ride, a 148 mile event with somewhere around 7,000 ft of vertical. The guy I do it with is suggesting that for this year, we instead do the Vermont 100-200 (same day) which consists of an unsupported loosely organized ride of maybe 40 riders. It is 212 miles, most of which is on Vermont Route 100, and I believe has a little over 10,000 vertical.

    How big of a difference is it between 148 and 7k and 212 and 10k? The first time I did the 148 miler I had many 100 milers under my belt and the difference was mind-numbing. I have since changed the way I train and my body accomodates that ride pretty well. I finish with gas in the tank, have a beer (it finishes at a brewery, after all) and some food, then a two+ hour drive home. I just wonder how much more gas is needed to go the 212? Especially, since there is a big momma climb late in the ride. In fact, the bulk of the climbing is in the second half.

    Anyone done something like this? Advice :-)

    Posted 4 months ago

  2. jacobus

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    How big a difference? 64 miles. Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Posted 4 months ago

  3. jacobus

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    Or, as Ryan Kelly said while riding the 200 on 100 with Tim Johnson and Ted King. He feels like he got hit by a dump truck full of awesome.
    http://vimeo.com/27367910

    Posted 4 months ago

  4. nightfend

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    The Brewery ride sounds more fun. The other ride sounds torturous if it stays mostly on a single road. Besides, there's no beer at the end of the unsupported ride...

    As far as distance goes. Unless you are racing this distance, don't worry about it. You might be a tired afterwards, but you should have no issue tacking on an extra 60 miles if you eat correctly.

    Posted 4 months ago

  5. 79pmooney

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    The huge key will be pacing yourself and eating enough. In my racing days I did two 175 mile rides and a number of 160 mile rides, all solo. (I never did the climbing you are talking about. I did ride up Pack Monadnock in southern NH on my first 175 miler at the halfway point on a 42-19. Yes, I was a little sick!)

    If you can do the 148 and 7000', you can do the 212 and 10,000, BUT, you have to be watching your resources all day long. That means staying out of fast pacelines. Keeping your heart rate unreasonably low the first half of the day. Eating early and often. Likewise drinking. Eat a lot the day before. (This will have the added benefit of slowing your early miles.)

    Do those things and you will be passing toasted riders on that final climb. Oh, and put on some seriously low gears and use them early. Your muscle fiber is one of the resources you have to use wisely.

    Ben

    Posted 4 months ago

  6. Cosmic Kid

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    Ben is spot-on. It is all about energy conservation. As he noted, if you can do the one ride, you can do the other...if paced properly.

    That is a big long day of Zone 2. If you have a power meter, it should be faily easy to pace yourself correctly the whole day. Just make sure you have the necessary gearing to keep it in the correct zone. If you don't have a PM, use HR instead, although a PM would be the preferred tool.

    Just say "NO!!" to WCP!

    "Want to get faster? Work harder, eat better, cut the crap. Instead of talking the talk, work the work"
    Posted 4 months ago

  7. thinline

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    Thanks, gang.

    And yes, I absolutely get the endurance approach, hence my reference to changing the way I trained a few years back. I went from almost not finishing the 148 miler to finishing just fine a couple years later when I went to try again.

    Only issue is that there are some climbs on this ride that will take me out of zone 2 even in my easiest gearing and while taking it mellow to keep HR down. I have found that as long as I stay below 80% max on a climb, I recover nicely. A little over 80%, it takes more focus and attention to recover re: HR and nutrition. Crack 85% for a sustained period with lots of miles and climbing to go, eh, could get questionable! In a way, it's good that the hardest climbs are in the 2nd half of the ride.

    Posted 4 months ago

  8. Jimmy

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    Yeah, Ben nailed it. Spot on. The only additional consideration is overuse. How are your knees, back, neck, etc. after your 148 miler? Assuming all is well biomechanically, it's just a few more hours in the saddle + Ben's excellent input.

    Posted 4 months ago

  9. Cosmic Kid

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    Are you running a compact crank? If not, it may be a worthwhile investment!

    Posted 4 months ago

  10. hoshie99

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    The only question I have is - is it more fun? I get that some folks like ultra mileage and too push themselves. I personally like the occasional century and then some, am certainly no stranger to a 10K climbing day, but 212 w/no beer bash sounds tedious.

    Perhaps you've done it and its time to see new things. Just not sure I'd choose that type of thing as my "new" thing. Maybe go to a new state and see some new scenery, guys weekend 2 day tour, etc

    Not being judgmental, just an unsolicited reminder to pick what's fun. That's a theme for me in this new year!

    Anyway, all said prior is perfect advice. I think the reminder on the biomechanics is very astute - I get very weird foot hotspots and hip issues past 100 miles so have to work on core for a few months prior. At that kind of mileage, a small issue can ruin the day if it gets too large.

    You guys are all awesome if you can bang out 150 without cratering.

    j

    Posted 4 months ago

  11. zootracer

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    200 miles, 10K of climbing, unsupported?

    Posted 4 months ago

  12. pa biker

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    The mileage jump is significant. Going from 148 to 200 miles will be noticed. Going from 7k of climbing to 10k of climbing not so much. The extra 3k of climbing is spread out over more mileage.

    If it was the same distance with more climbing that would be different.

    We did a self-supported 101 miler last year with 12k of climbing that was hard, but it was also 35 degrees and very windy - so there are many factors.

    Posted 4 months ago

  13. watermoccasin

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    I've raced LOTOJA three times (206 miles, 8k climbing) and done another 7 or 8 200+ mile days.. here's my opinion:

    Pace yourself and don't do all the work, you already know about the eating and drinking

    If you've got the fitness to do 150, you've got the fitness to do 200, just don't burn too many matches doing stupid stuff like playing KOM or City Limit Sprint.

    Spend as little time off the bike as possible-- the more you wander around the rest stop the harder it is to get going. At LOTOJA my total stopped time last year might have been 90 seconds. The guy who won did not stop; mussettes and feed zone

    Posted 4 months ago

  14. Orange Crush

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    What PA said. The 10k of climbing is OK but it's a substantial mileage jump so you gotta pace yourself.

    These threads always remind me of the time I wanted to pay my parents a surprise visit while they were camping in Luxembourg. Set out early morning for the almost 300k ride there. Upon arrival, the birds had gone back home and we must have crossed paths. Next day it was ride all the way back. Biggest riding weekend I ever had.

    The wise man said follow me...and he walked behind.
    Posted 4 months ago

  15. 79pmooney

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    thinline, seriously look at getting lower gearing. I rode a 9000' century last June. I knew I wasn't my strongest/most fit since I was hit by a car (3 busted ribs) at the end of the previous summer. I normally ride a triple 53-42-29 x 12-23 or 25. I put on the 12-28. Very smart move. I would have laughed at doing any of those hills on a 28 x 28. The laugh was on me. I used that gear more than once.

    Late last summer I rode Cycle Oregon. Day 3 was 88 miles and 6800'. I took a wrong turn, added 10 miles and 1000'. I had gone light on both rest stop munchies and pocket food, knowing I would be at lunch in good shape. After that wrong turn, the next two rest stops had minimal food. (The organizers figured about 400 would do the Crater Lake rim in addition to the 3000' of climbing to get there. 1200 did it.) That was a hard day and not fun. Fortunately it was all downhill after lunch. One big difference that saved my butt was that it was September and I had a lot more miles on my legs and I had been doing disciplined climbing rides. So I could continue after my mistake, but eating more would have made the day a lot more fun. (And Crater lake is worth being there for. I basically missed it.)

    Ben

    Posted 4 months ago

  16. thinline

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    Biomechanics, last two years in the 148 miler, no big issues. I had a little IT band tightness two years ago near the end but worked it out just fine with some easy stretching. I do occasionally get a hot spot in the ball of my foot so I will be paying attention to that as I train. A nice soft wool sock seems to be a good cure for that.

    As to gearing, I run a compact with an 11-28 on the back so I have the low gearing! After all (some will get this reference) I live on the west side of the Appalachian Gap in Vermont, 3 miles up from the bottom, 7 miles from the summit. That's the summit finish of day 3 of the GMSR. Got myself a compact crank for my 45th B-day and have been thanking myself ever since.

    Posted 4 months ago

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