Lance Armstrong could admit to using performance-enhancing substances,NYT

  1. Entheo

    offline
    Member

    if he gives some form of confession and is assured a pass on criminal charges then i don't think it will be about the money (there will still be numerous civil suits) it will be about saving the legacy. little by little he'll be able to repair that damage, i.e. "everyone did it what could i do" defense and altho he won't get his titles back he'll be able to come out of his bunker. that's got to be killing him right now, being under a blacklight instead of the limelight.

    he's an articulate & charismatic guy; he could end up doing a lot of good for the sport. hamilton & landis vehemently denied and they seem pretty much forgiven now that they've come clean. but as i've said before, there can't be forgiveness without repentance. we shall see.

    Posted 4 months ago
  2. hackmechanic

    offline
    Member

    If Lance wrote a tell all book outlining every name, every team mate, every doctor, every pharmacy, how to beat tests, all of it, every single dirty detail down to the arguments he reportedly had with Andreau's wife, and the Sheryl Crow relationship, and if Robin Williams knew, all of it, the book would sell millions, the movie rights would be worth millions. He could probably pay back all his fees and awards and still keep the house in Spain and never have to work another day in his life. I'd watch a Hollywood film following "Lance" through a tour with the team talks on the bus and the hotel doping sessions and the midnight police raids and the back alley phone calls and the close call drug smuggling boarder crossings. It would be a good movie without Lance, one of those "works of fiction based on actual events" and I'd go watch it.

    I think it would be funny in the movie to have someone look up from a laptop in a hotel room and say, "Hey Lance, they're talking about you on the Velonews forum again. One guy's saying you're a doper and another guy is defending you saying you've never been caught despite all the tests." And then the camera could pan over to Lance lying in a hotel bed with a blood bag feeding his arm and he could respond, "It's only cheating if you get caught and I've never been caught so it's true, I'm innocent."

    Posted 4 months ago
  3. Orange Crush

    offline
    Member

    Could, may, might...yaaaawn.

    The wise man said follow me...and he walked behind.
    Posted 4 months ago
  4. 7tdf-SpearofLance

    offline
    Member

    All you hater's waiting for Lance's next move. Well were heading up to Alpe Dwez now and the suspension is killing you all now. Yuk, yuk... Lance still rules.

    Posted 4 months ago
  5. Jah

    offline
    Member

  6. Yo Mike

    offline
    Member

    Any day now, if LA 'names names' in exchange for a lesser punishment, the Teabag Brigade will 'suddenly' think it is 'OK' to rat out cheaters in exchange for a deal with the authorities - just like Tyler and Floyd....

    Blind hero worship AND hypocrisy...nice combination, huh?

    Posted 4 months ago
  7. Robert1908

    offline
    Member

    Nick A.....you hit it! It has always been about LA....just ask him. Yes, too bad, for he had the potential to be such an inspiration to so many. Now, imagine the parent having to explain all this to his son or daughter....I hope they can put some perspective on all of this. Sad, but this is a cultural phenomenon, and Lance is certainly not the first.
    Yes, an incredible cyclist...with or without PEDs, no doubt....but hopefully, we can all learn from this snapshot of our culture...and get back to some basic values in life that used to be more important than "The Finish Line".

    Posted 4 months ago
  8. Inferno7

    offline
    Member

    great post 7tdf-SOL

    LeMond VO2 max 95, Armstrong 82....doh
    Posted 4 months ago
  9. madvax

    offline
    Member

    Here is an interesting analysis by the NY Times titled, Agency Could Gain if Armstrong Confesses:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/sports/cycling/what-would-lance-armstrong-and-usada-gain-with-confession.html

    Posted 4 months ago
  10. Jah

    offline
    Member

    so... if he confesses everything and it blows apart the convenient little window of "truth" provided Levi, CVV, Danielson, Hincapie and others, what happens to their little deal with a slap on the wrist, then?

    if it brings down the UCI, awesome. Parsed truth and a suspended sentence so he can continue racing or whatever at the ripe old age of 41? please, no more of that

    USADA might play ball because it will vindicate them in the court of public opinion. That would be unfortunate

    Posted 4 months ago
  11. flicker

    offline
    Member

    Here is an interesting analysis by the NY Times titled, Agency Could Gain if Armstrong Confesses:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/sports/cycling/what-would-lance-armstrong-and-usada-gain-with-confession.html

    If Armstrong were to admit,(frankly, a bad idea by Armstrong, nothing to gain for him,) for the good of anti-doping in sports, it would be in the best interests of cycling, to keep it behind closed doors. If it helped stop doping in sports it would be a good thing. As far as all the talk of lifting a weight off my shoulders, living a lie to my parents, friends, etc. Hamilton, a load of BS, that dude really likes to jerk peoples' chain.
    Any sanctions against Armstrong should remain, and his henchmen, Hincapie, Leipheimer, Danielson, etc., etc., deserve the same penalty, because they are still lying, I am sure they doped until their last races.....

    Posted 4 months ago
  12. rnddude

    offline
    Member

    It occured to me that the one thing missing from this entire PED's era, and all of the confessions that have come out, is the total lack of visibility of the supply chain. It's not like the durgs are legal everywhere but in cycling and the sporting world. Where and who is in the supply chain? Are the drug manufactureres complicit? Who are the dealers? Why has noone really pushed for answers to these questions?

    "To be free and to live a free life - that is the most beautiful thing there is."
    Miguel Indurain
    Posted 4 months ago
  13. flicker

    offline
    Member

    Girona Spain, the Easter Bloc, good old American Docs, Muessews'vet, unmentionable coaches, massuers, Elisa Basso, oh so many providers.

    Posted 4 months ago
  14. jacques_anquetil

    offline
    Member

    Yikes! Johan all those enablers must be shaking in their boots. LA's willing to toss them all under the bus just so he can Swim, Run, and Bike again.

    he must want to get in front of the story now before Bruyneel's, Martí's, and Celaya's cases go to arbitration.

    It's very good chess, actually.

    Posted 4 months ago
  15. TheShortWhiteGuy

    offline
    Member

    "Who are the dealers?"

    Tugboat? Perito de (insert any Spanish rider's name here)? Levi's little lap dogs? It would be real easy to smuggle drugs via animals.

    Life is too short to be small. - Disraeli

    So, why not be petty? - The Short White Guy™
    Posted 4 months ago
  16. Sustanon

    offline
    Member

    Perhaps they had something set up like the "Pizza connection" in the 1980's. Like the Livestrong connection; money and junk laundered, transported through a non-profit. Who knows.

    Posted 4 months ago
  17. 79pmooney

    offline
    Member

    The real question as rnddude posted is who are the manufacturers of these products and how and through who did those products get to those who delivered them. Some may have been prescribed by doctors. Surely a lot of those products went from manufacturer to rider without seeing legal channels. LA and Johan could bring a lot of that to light. If the doctors were censured for their conduct by their oversight agencies (AMA and the like) and the underground agents saw legal sanctions or at least, full disclosure of their names and activities (if SOL had passed), that would serve as a real deterrent in the future. (This is all about money after all. Loss of license, fines and jail time all affect the bottom line of the participants.)

    I know this is a pipe dream. (Unless LA gets a deal to be able to compete if enough bodies are thrown under the bus. I'm sure LA has no ethical problems with that concept.)

    Ben

    Posted 4 months ago
  18. rnddude

    offline
    Member

    It just seems that there is no visible pressure on the supply chain at all. If PEDS are rediciously easy to obtain, then you must rely solely on the ethics of the potential users, or the fear of getting caught and prosecuted. If there was some effort to control the supply chain, it could do two things: make availability more difficult which inhibits access somewhat, and raises the user price of the drugs, which could make them unaffordable for a lot more riders. I also thing that the drug companies bear some burden, even if all their first tier sales are to legitimate buyers.....if their sales/production levels are far outpacing the projected legitimate market numbers. I think many are conveniently looking the other way while raking in the sales and profits. After all, these are not drugs that are being made on the black market, which usually happens when legitimate supplies are strictly controlled. The lack of a black market manufacturing industry tells me that it is not needed because the real thing is easily procurred.

    Posted 4 months ago
  19. serotta91

    offline
    Member

    Depends on whats on the table, Armstrong could ask for his 7 tour victories back...

    Posted 4 months ago
  20. Berzin

    offline
    Member

    rnddude-You bring up some salient points.

    Check out what's going on in Italy and you'll see that money laundering, tax evasion and yes, the PED chain of supply are being investigated.

    In fact, the investigation is wrapping up as we speak. Dr. Ferrari seems to be in big trouble, because he is the one man who seems to have had his hand in all three facets.

    If Armstrong confesses, he will need to give Travis Tygart information on his relationship with Ferrari. Then and only then will the "Teflon Doctore" be finally exposed.

    Serott91-As for Armstrong getting any of his Tours back, absolutely not. He had an opportunity to lose only two of the seven if he had cooperated, but he refused.

    Now that he's been officially stripped of all seven, there is no going back. The most he can hope for is competing in triathlons again sometime in the future, but that seems very remote right now.

    Armstrong doesn't control the narrative anymore. He is bargaining from a position of weakness and desperation. He is in no position to ask for anything. All he's doing is putting out feelers to see what there is to gain from a confession, but a mere confession will not be enough because he's already been convicted of doping.

    If he doesn't rat out his peeps, there will be nothing for him to bargain for.

    Posted 4 months ago
  21. jmr

    offline
    Member

    It's possible LA's knowledge could be a bonanza for USADA/WADA. Presumably he could identify enablers, suppliers, doped riders, tainted doctors/trainers, smugglers, origin sites for the peds, corrupt officials at USAC/UCI/IOC, traffickers, methods for using and defeating testing protocols, etc.

    I would imagine this information would be invaluable if he not only confessed but actually agreed to cooperate 100% in exposing everything and everyone he knows about. I think USADA would make some sort of limited concession in order to pick his brain. Full restoration unlikely but a return to competition is conceivable. Probably would be far more valuable than the limited and contrived confessions they have received thus far. Even the most fervent of LA's detractors don't believe the confessions thus far are complete.

    A safe bet that his legal team is in part responsible for his defiance thus far. I'll bet the legal team is squeezing him for what he's worth and will continue to do so through any possible negotiations with USADA. Whenever lawyers become involved they are the only true winners.

    Of course the possible legal and financial ramifications could be and probably are holding LA back. Why shouldn't LA toss people and institutions under the bus, they've been doing it to him for some time now. Give USADA what they've been presumably looking for.

    Take back the life-time ban for full access into the world of peds, why not, as long as it's 100% and not half-pedaling by LA.

    Personally I'd like to see the house of USAC looked into. Since the early 80's we've been hearing about virtually every elite athlete passing through being coerced to take peds. High time to expose that good old boys club of corrupt officials and industry insiders. Somebody introduced (or at least facilitated) LA et al into the ped culture as juniors and espoirs.

    Hopefully this chapter can be brought to an end.

    Posted 4 months ago
  22. 79pmooney

    offline
    Member

    jmr, that last bit, looking into USAC, seems like a stretch. Remember USAC was bailed out by Thom Weisel and hos puppet installed as head. LA and Weisel share a olt of business ventures. Any investigation of USAC worth anything will unearth a lot of dirt to which LA is intimately linked.

    I'd love to see it but won't hold my breath - unless USADA can get LA on the hook to keep telling more in exchange for the right to compete. If LA really talked about USAC, he'd be throwing the guy he effectively owes millions to under the bus. Wow!

    Ben

    Posted 4 months ago
  23. thinline

    offline
    Member

    The new tell all book will have a cover picture of a slightly flexed arm, length of surgical tubing tied tightly around it, vein bulging, hypodermic needle about to be inserted. The title . . .

    It's All About The Spike.

    Posted 4 months ago
  24. ElleSeven

    offline
    Member

    It it possible that what we've seen in the press recently, the unsubstantiated rumor, IS the confession? It seems to me, and pretty much everyone else, that he has little motivation to confess officially, since this augurs not only instant defeat in a number of very expensive law suits but possible imprisonment. So why are we hearing anything at all, from people closely connected to him and from people whose "No Comment" alone speaks volumes on the significance of the rumor?

    Is this move that permits him to fall vaguely into line with mainstream opinion on the whole era and the new social rules of probity, yet at the same time -- because it's not a documented, sworn confession -- keeps him somewhat insulated from further destructive and humiliating legal actions? This flurry of speculation shows every sign of being a coordinated leak, just as in conventional political manipulations.

    A friend of mine says no: he doesn't get enough "absolution" from a rumor. I say yes: while it doesn't gain him absolution, it does afford him the opportunity not to keep looking like a pathological liar. It's as if he's saying, with a wink and nod, "Yeah -- I get it, everyone knows what I did, and I know it too, and you know that I know it." It's a way out of the bunker.

    Posted 4 months ago

Reply »

You must log in to post.