Hello, this is my first post(nube). Been lurking for a bit and feel this is a great place to ask for advice.
I recently had my frame repaired and returned from Predator Cycles in LA, the frame was repaired but I think I can still see a crack underneath the repair and the area of repair feels a little spongy. After speaking with them they assured me that the frame was repaired correctly and the frame was completely inspected before and after using sonic testing. There also seems to be two small cracks in my drop out that I didn’t notice nor did they, the guy on the phone was quick to put the blame back on me but I only have one ride after the repair. I’m not knocking the work and the TAT was fairly quick but the frame came back unpainted which caught me off guard. I hope I’m not being too critical, but I would hate for this thing to come apart on me.
My question; Does anyone know anybody on the west coast that can inspect the frame, I am just not comfortable with the frame. Not sure what sonic testing is but what are my options or should I just buy a new ride.
Cracked frame please help
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Calfee Design. One of the leaders in carbon frames, construction AND repair.
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If you feel uncomfortable with the repair you'll never be happy riding that bike, It will always be in the back of your mind. No amount of testing or engineering testing is going to make that feeling go away. I've worked with enough customers to know once they get that 'feeling' all the testing and talking is a lost cause.
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Buy a new frame. Should be some great deals out there as it's the dead of winter. The goal is to enjoy your bike no worry about it.
LeMond VO2 max 95, Armstrong 82....doh -
Ruckus Composites does nice work, as does Kane. A customer used Kane for shipping damage and it was a beautiful repair.
As much as I hate to think it, 'sonic testing' sounds a lot like 'tapping it with a coin to listen for a dead spot'. Not to say that I haven't crossed major bodies of water on boats repaired with this august method, but if that's what it is, they should call it what it is.
For disclosure purposes, I am a partner in November Bicycles. This fact probably colors everything I say. I'm clearly not to be trusted. -
dkri, I believe sonic testing compares the density of the repair against the
the undamaged carbon. Your example is somewhat correct but lacks the details required to get a proper analysis. -
In the Vancouver area you get Rob Mulder of Roberts Surfboards to do repairs. I have seen his work first hand. Top notch. Unpainted sounds like an incomplete job to me.
Lance who?? -
Rob does insane work. His sailboards stand up to what Dale Cook puts them through:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF-MZR4ccX0
He also built the only slalom sailboard I ever rode that I thought was too fast - the thing was a ROCKET.
Bob, if that's what they're doing, I'd trust it. For the most part I trust the tap test. There's just a lot of calling farts "digestive air experiences" out there in the world.
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Ahhh....the Gorge, fond memories. Rowena one afternoon on a 8' 90L. board and a 3.2 sail and being so overpowered it was total survival sailing.
"To be free and to live a free life - that is the most beautiful thing there is."
Miguel Indurain -
90L is ENORMOUS for a 3.2! My only current board is a 103 that rides a little bigger, and I try to steal a different board when it's below 5.5. 3.2, it's time for like a 75L.
Epic thread drift. Sorry. My bad.
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+1 Mike -- I had a similar experience several years ago. The frame in question (Trek) is now my trainer bike.
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Why don't you post some pictures of these cracks? If they are just in the clearcoat, it should be fine.
Tai
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Thanks for the suggestions. If I can't get a second look at the frame I will be buying a replacement this weekend.
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Yo Giant, to answer your question about sonic testing. This is just some knucklehead tapping on your frame looking for dead spots. This is bush league and not accurate and definitely not a recognized inspection technique. Question; if your only form of inspection is tapping on a frame how will you ever know if the bond and the thickness are correct, you would need the hearing of an owl to hear any discernible differences.
When picking a shop ask there frame count, if the shop only repairs 5-10 frames a month they may not have the capitol for the technology to be a player. I left Calfee to Spyder only because of the technology jump, if you are fine with a glorified surfboard repair these companies are great, most can do the repair in a week or two tapping all the way.
If you are in Cali you can drive your frame either to our Orange County shop or the main shop in Santa Cruz, the owner will x-ray the frame for free just PM me or call the shop.
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Mr. Spydercomposites, do you do paint?
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Just what I was thinking Jah. Where was Spyder on that thread? Knocking competitors is not best way to pick up competitors.
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Come on Jah, Stinky whats your AX, making assumptions on a few posting, you need to think larger and put things into perspective. To start with you only know one side of that story; we certainly are not going to jump into the fray online with or about a customer. But I will say this…I never hid behind my keyboard and felt compelled to write a bad review about anyone or anything, just not wired that way.
However, I do take offense you would say buyer beware especially when you have no clue who we are or what we do. In the real world we average 120 frames & wheels per month with a 2012 year end of 1470 repairs. All of the work that comes though the door is from word of mouth, we do not advertise and never have in the last 7 years…have we taken a few lumps in the past…absolutely who hasn't, but were a dirty high volume machine shop trying our best to service our customers not a retail store.
Mr. Jah here some FAQ’s since you asked;
Spyder Composites is the hands down leader in Carbon Repair. If were not I would love to hear why. // Spyder Composites is the ONLY carbon repair company in the world that can inspect your carbon…period. We use radiography (x-ray) and in some cases ultrasonic’s, no moronic tapping or sanding. (sorry,tapping on a frame is BS and a sales gimmick)// 1 out of every 5 frames x-rayed showed additional cracking not seen on the surface…will your frame be that 5th frame with the unseen catastrophic crack on the head tube? // Spyder Composites does not use foam fillers like all of our competitors. // we do more repairs then all of the competitors combined. // we have never charged for paint & never have sent a frame out unpainted. Our paint is good but if you want perfect it will cost extra, most people go with the free. More often than not we go way beyond expectation on the free paint and only a few have paid the additional cost. // We offer a flat rate repair with a two week turnaround for $250 (nobody ever bites). // Turnaround time, our average turnaround is 3-4 weeks. This is mostly due to the extra steps we utilize like x-ray before and after the repair. Because not all damage is the same we do have frames that have been in the shop for various reasons from 2 months to 14 months. If you send a frame in a shoe box or some random brand that needs dropouts expect it to sit till we get a solution
Look, I hate having to defend Spyder to the haters but here’s what you don’t know about Spyder, we get asked daily from insurance companies & Attorneys to x-ray frames @ $250hr with a 4hr min for litigation against bike shops and manufactures and the owner tells them to piss off, we also repaired over 50 juniors frames last year at no cost to them and a handful of no charge repairs for some riders that just needed a hand. Were no angles but are grateful for our position in the industry and feel we should give back. Not for the above mentioned reasons alone we feel trolling is unfair and most trolls are to small minded to realize the damage they cause by a getback post.
Jah, one thing I agree with is buyer beware. If your dumb enough to send your crashed frame to anybody besides us or Calfee we offer a free mouth piece’s to protect your grill when your frame comes apart, if you think most of the other guys are doing anything more than a surfboard repair or have any real experience you’re kidding yourself.
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Kind of makes me want to buy a titanium bike.
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I know exactly who you are and exactly what you do, I was trying to be nice. You do great work and then torpedo it with terrible customer service and tons of excuses. You pushed the button, now here it goes:
I went so far as to recommend you guys to a buddy and the whole process took over a year. During that time, due dates were missed, the frame was shipped back without water bottle bosses, sent back to you and so on. You were uncommunicative and generally just a PIA to work with. The excuses when you guys were actually reached were things like: "the bike is being packed right now", "we're working on it right now", "my flunky is dropping it off at the shipping place right now" and so on. In the end, the Buddy is completely bummed and won't ride the bike you fixed. You are lucky that you are thousands of miles away because the dude (who is way huge) would have stopped by and broken your bong over your head.
A little piece of unsolicited advice for you; say what you're going to do and do what you say. Be truthful with lead times, be proactive, communicate, lay off the pot during work hours and your business will flourish. From what I have seen, you do great work. Continue to treat customers like my buddy (apparently, he is far from the only one) and you will always be looking over your shoulder and dodging calls. Best of luck, but your as far ar your reputation - all one has to do is look around. That is hard to put back in the bottle
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Ok Jah, fair enough but let’s be truthful and we do appreciate the referral. I was not here at the time when the frame was sent in for repair and only know of the problem from what you and the owner has told me. Think about it, Spyder went from a few frames per month to 100 overnight with two employees’…literally! Not only did Frank have to keep up with the repairs he had to hire & train new workers, if you knew the owner and his attention to detail you would understand how hard this would be. If one of the workers wasn’t sanding the frame correctly he would just take over x10 every day. When I came aboard I was hired to help with the growth of Spyder, weed out the problem workers and iron out the wrinkles. We had the same problems at Calfee so this is nothing new and typical for most companies that are growing. But to directly address your concern I looked up that repair & x-rays, spoke to the owner and you are overstating the length of time by months, the repair wasn’t for a simple water bottle mount, the repair was to rebuild the tube from scratch then install new water bottle mounts. In retrospect better communication with your friend would have helped but It’s not cool to post something you heard from a friend unless you know all the facts from both sides of the argument, you could have easily called, sent a im, facebook, or emailed before your post. If your buddy still has an issue or is scared he can always call the owner, we have never not owned up to a problem, if you speak to your friend I’m sure he would tell you the same thing.
I have known the owner for a couple of years and doesn’t BS, his work ethic is second to none & is in the shop from 6am till 10 every day of the week. This guy worked the hardest job in the world as a commercial diver for years and people that know him have never called him a liar, lazy or a puss. If he said it was going to ship out and it didn’t then there was a reason for it. Hopefully now with our new shipping guy there will never be a problem you friend experienced.
Also “Jah” WTF the owner doesn’t smoke dope or drink and never has, your comment is fing cowardly and you should remove that from your post. He has kids that race on a pro team your comments could reflect badly on them. Cycling is a small community and that type of slander is oddball to say the least. “Jah” you’re like the pot trying to call the kettle black.
Spyder is home grown from the ground up, we invested $$$ for new x-ray and ultrasonic equipment because we know the importance of inspection and the collateral failure rates of carbon. He grew the business by word of mouth and you are correct, negative reviews will affect business to potential customers that don’t know us like yourself. Lead times, delivery times etc… are important to us and we meet weekly to work on those types of problems. As we grow so has our customer service, we answer every email, have two separate phone lines and our clients can txt. So instead of doing the passive aggresive approach be positive and drop us a line, we are very nice.
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try answering a few of those lines and telling the truth when you do. Best of luck, you are going to need it. The bike industry is a tough one
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Jah, I drove to the shop to clarify the frame with the owner. I don’t know for sure but we bought that frame from the owner over the trouble of having the frame bouncing back & fourth across the country. The frame was cracked in three spots between the BB and the TT and a new tube was built and installed, most shops would not have even taken the repair, and none would have gone the extra mile to buy the frame. Based on the photo the frame was quoted at $150 which the owner stuck to, he could have up-charged the customer but we don’t conduct business that way, we have hundreds of repairs that were cost prohibitive that he repaired on his own time and never not once, has that burden been past-on to the consumer. Your buddy’s repair would have cost well over $400 at any other shop…easy.
The frame was bought off the customer for about $1400, dialed in and donated to a junior. If you knew us the way you say you would know this type of action is typical. Out of the 1400+ repairs this year I can count on a hand & half the customers that had a problem with lead times and repair. Most of our repairs start with a pic via email, from there we give an estimate of cost and time. If a customer wants a guaranteed time and cost the can pay the flat rate fee of $250 and get a two week turnaround. Plain and simple, best customer service in the world is never having to talk to anyone.I appreciate your concern and best wish's Jah, our current growth model is scalable & manageable, I can assure you we won't be going anywhere soon, our trajectory is upward with no dips in sight. Not only do we have the top talent we have the equipment and resources.
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