Ping*Hab Re: Merlin

  1. george

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    T.Kellogg had this to say about Merlins at the Serotta Forum.

    Sorry I have been missing all of this discussion. Just too little time for me to lurk around the forums that might have discussions that I might be interested in or that I may be able to help with. I do wish that I had more time since I think that I can occasionally be of help ...

    Yes, Merlin and Litespeed still exist and still continue to make frames. However time and markets change, and both companies have changed as well. Both brands still produce Ti frames, but most of Litespeed's units are now composite. They had sold out of their '10 composite production about the same time that they started shipping them. Merlin's strongest sales areas are now in Europe and the far east. Sounds odd, but the US just doesn't absorb very many Ti frames any more. If you want one, your dealer can still order and get them in any case.

    How has this effected us here at Spectrum? Not very much over the last few years. Back in the early Ti days, we were selling five a week, but we have been in the range of about 35 - 45 a year for many years now.

    I am still Merlin's road design guy, but because of market changes and Merlin's traditional approach to tradition (and mine as well) I have not been called on to design a new model for a couple of years now. It seems that Merlin customers don't see much reason to ask me to fix what ain't broken. Since Merlin has never had much interest in tube shapes, fads and trends, we just haven't had reason for any "new and improved" features. The only (slight) departure from that Merlin tradition was the CR frame from six years ago. The tube work that made the CR different was quickly incorporated into the Extralight and the CR went away.

    So it really does come down to "if it ain't broke ..." There are still enough who appreciate what we (Merlin and I) do, but what we do is no longer "hot" enough to put money into big marketing. The Ti frame market is just too small to support significant marketing dollars. Just the way it is.

    Now, back to work getting these Ti frames out the door.

    Posted 2 years ago

  2. Entheo

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    i had a merlin 'road' for many years and enjoyed it; loved the welds and the classic ti look. however, it speed wobbled on me at high speed, a problem i could not debug after much effort (tom kellogg was even kind enough to reply to me via email), so it was put out to pasture.

    having ridden what i'll call a 'carbon superbike' now for 3 years there's just no way i'd ride anything else for general road riding (touring's another story). the combination of light weight, comfort and rock solid stability/handling far outshines anything i've ever ridden. and while i think it's true that some carbon bike makers get too cute with their swoopy stuff, in the hands of the engineering-oriented mfgrs carbon gives them far more options wrt tube geometries than other materials, and i think that results in a better bike.

    Posted 2 years ago

  3. KidWok

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    New and improved...interesting point...at some point, you just can't manipulate a metal any further. On the other hand, carbon fiber is great for allowing marketers to keep making claims about improving performance statistics and allowing consumers to think that they own something old and inferior.

    Tai

    http://www.thepeoplescoastclassic.org/
    Posted 2 years ago

  4. george

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    I guess we'll just have to muddle along with our out of fashion Ti bikes Tai. :^)
    Entheo I wouldn't trade my Seven Ti for any Carbon frame out there.
    Parlee, Cyfac, Colnago all lay claim to making the "Best CF frames" but who's to judge?
    I've had two CF frames so far, Trek 5200 and Look KG 461 and I liked them both but not well enough to want to keep them. Were they lighter than the Seven? Maybe but not by much,were they more comfortable ? Not really, kind of a draw.
    Did they respond or handle better than the Seven? NO!
    But for me it really just comes down to personal preference and what pleases the soul.
    When you have a bike that pleases your soul then everything else falls in to place as does yours for you.

    Posted 2 years ago

  5. Peter Polack

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    A bunch of years ago, I prompted my buddy to attend a bike swap at a convention center in Hartord, CT. They even had valet bike parking!

    I knew he was thinking about a titanium bike, but neither of us had a clue what would be for sale at the swap.

    Anyway, we're walking the aisles and I think it might have been the SRP fasteners booth we stopped at. Besides aluminum and ti fasteners for sale, one of the vendors had a Merlin Extralight, complete bike for sale. It had a 1" threaded Time fork, a mix of Dura Ace and Ultegra 8 speed STI with Campy brakes ( that combo meant there was no brake quick release function), and Bontrager wheels. The entire bike was selling for $2k at a time when a Standard Merlin frame ALONE was $2k.

    Well, you saw the cogs in his head spin wildly when he spied this bike. He took a spin on it then wanted me to do the same to get my opinion, even though a trip around the inside of the convention hall wasn't going to tell me much other than it was obviously his size.

    He called the wife, pre-cellphone days, and got permission to whip out the plastic. I wanted to take the wheels off and strap the parts to our backs and ride them the 20 miles home because there was something symbolic about the whole purchase, but he wimped out. His wife came and fetched both of us and our now three bikes.

    He's had that Merlin Extralight for at least 10 years, hasn't changed a part, and won't ride any of his other bikes anymore. I'm not a big titanium fan but I thought it was an incredible deal at the time.

    I just wish he'd give it a paint job.

    Posted 2 years ago

  6. george

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    Great story Peter, "Love at First Sight" and wow, what a wife.
    On my two road frames I have Campy drives but use Tektro R740
    calipers. I like having the option of allowing more room to remove wheels.

    Posted 2 years ago

  7. Habanero

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    I concur Peter on that story. I first got into ti in 1999 when I got my Habanero. Prior to that I had been riding steel, Bridgestone RB-1 and a Ciocc, and aluminum when I started out. The aluminum was some low end Trek POS. Both of those steel bikes were sweet riding bikes, but I got on that Habanero for the first time and knew this was the frame material for me. I still love steel and my CoMotion Espresso is one of the best bikes I've ever owned, but man I still love the way ti rides. My Merlin is easily the best of the four ti bikes I've ever owned.

    I've been to Tom Kellogg's shop in PA to get a fitting done when I had the Habanero and he loved the welds on the Hab. (Go see him if you get a chance, just to see all the eye candy in that barn. It's frickin' ridiculous!) I asked him what he would do differently in terms of design should I have him build me a bike and he gave me a bunch of info which I have in my shop somewhere. I'd be willing to bet that the Merlin I have meets the criteria for what he had in mind for me.

    "There is no better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance the next time."
    Malcolm X
    Posted 2 years ago

  8. system7

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    Bob - thanks for posting. I came upon a Spectrum Ti bike this week and it was a sharp looking bike. Probably one of the 45 produced last year as it had new Campy.

    @Entheo - I have a System six as well and it impresses me nearly every time I ride it. Best race bike I have owned. I also have a Seven Axiom Ti that I picked up used 8 years ago and don't ride it as much, but lately I have been on it quite a bit. I'll probably keep the Seven forever, but not sure what I will replace the System 6 with. So Bob, for now I'd say they both "please my soul" pretty well. I do wish the front end of the seven was stiffer though.

    Posted 2 years ago

  9. Habanero

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    What kind of fork are you running on the Seven?

    Posted 2 years ago

  10. system7

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    Reynolds Ouzo Pro. My short list for replacements include the Alpha Q and ENVE (f.k.a. EDGE) 2.0. Maybe I can find an EDGE branded 2.0 on closeout by year end.

    Posted 2 years ago

  11. george

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    System 7 the Wound Up on my Seven is stiffer than horny bear fresh out of hibernating.
    BTW my Axiom is spec'c for a 45 (4.5) Rake.

    Posted 2 years ago

  12. Habanero

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    Go with the Alpha Q. Been running one on my Dean and my CoMotion for quite a while and the ride is amazing. I am about to replace the Ouzo Pro on my Merlin with a CS10.

    Better hurry though as True Temper is no longer making forks. Make sure to buy some additional epoxy as the amount supplied with the fork is not enough!

    Posted 2 years ago

  13. Entheo

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    Parlee, Cyfac, Colnago all lay claim to making the "Best CF frames" but who's to judge?

    not being afraid to put on my tin hat, i will! :-)

    i think to qualify as a 'carbon superbike' the bike needs to:

    * have an oversized bottom bracket (e.g. bb 30)
    * be monocoque, not lugged (sorry LOOK & colnago)
    * tapered 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 inch head tube with integrated fork...
    * ...which supports stout downtube integration

    bike mfgrs that make qualifying bikes include:

    * specialized
    * c'dale
    * orbea
    * cervelo
    * scott
    * ridley
    * trek
    * giant
    * probably most bikes ridden by pro teams these days

    Posted 2 years ago

  14. Habanero

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    Some more bikes with the criteria you list Entheo

    Posted 2 years ago

  15. Jah

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    I have a Merlin (Atreus) that I like. The finish touches are nice; engraved headtube, BB, the way the the stays are finished at the rear dropouts. Rides nice, light enough and it does not scratch.

    Steel has made a bit of comeback with lots of tech in the tubes and builders interested in playing with it. Ti will never go away, and may make another run, too. Just takes an interest to build with it and people to buy

    I have had carbon bikes and they rode great, but IMO they seem much more flavor of the month. Particularly from the larger manufacturers. No sooner do you crack open the wallet and put a 1000 miles on it and they (the manufacturer) have moved on. Then you read about the crap that they give you if there is an issue because you had the audacity to lean on a toptube at a redlight. The evil "S" company comes to mind. You could buy a nice ti frame/fork with the replacement cost alone

    Rant over, just some thoughts

    Posted 2 years ago

  16. Habanero

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    Concur completely Jah!

    Posted 2 years ago

  17. Entheo

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    just because a mfgr comes out with a new model every year (cars, computers, phones, you name it) doesn't obsolete what you have. gotta make a buck to stay in business. besides, competition makes for a better product.

    ti frames are great, don't get me wrong. i'd love to pick up a nice ti touring frame. but to me they're a bit like vintage 'vettes or mustangs out for a rally, vs. formula one's that are constantly pushing the envelope.

    wrt warranties -- my carbon has a lifetime warranty, so no worries. i'd venture to guess that there's about a dime's worth of difference between any of the carbon superbikes, so take into consideration things like warranty when shopping -- could make the choice easier.

    ps hab: the position on that willier is AGRESSIVE!

    Posted 2 years ago

  18. george

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    Today we had an offshore wind. BTW the Moots took stole my heart away from the Seven.

    Those little specs below on the beach is a dog walker.

    Posted 4 months ago

  19. 13ollocks

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    After years of riding various steel frames, I bought a cheap Litespeed (Natchez) in '98 - rode this for about 4 years - perfectly good, if not spectacular, frame. In '03, I bought a used 2000 Vortex frame. This was a whole step up in lightness and handling. With an Ouzo Pro carbon fork, it is solid and predictable on downhills, sufficiently light for the climbs and plain comfortable for everything in between. IMO, the 2000 is the prettiest year for the Vortex - I think it was the last year of round/ovalized tubing, before they got into all that GET silliness. It has the requisite 1 1/8" standard head tube, radial seat stays and curved chain stays, "L" cutouts on the rear dropouts and "Litespeed" engraved BB shell. I'm 49, but I can't see myself ever buying another road bike, as long as I can still get components for this one.

    Posted 4 months ago

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