Stunned!

  1. The Diesel

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    That Armstrong doped wasn't exactly a surprise to me, as I imagine it wasn't a surprise to very many here. I've been saying it on this forum since 2005, and most of what we know now, we already knew then, down to the details.

    Yet, the way it has unfolded lately, I can't say I would have predicted even 10% of it. The fall has simply been stunning. Here are some of the things that have astounded me most:

    - The fact that it happened through a US outfit. I always thought a French, Italian or some other European anti-doping agency or reporter would nail him (and in many ways, several already had), but that nobody here would truly believe them so it wouldn't have changed anything. And I never thought a US agency would go that hard after him. After all, even the Feds didn't.

    - The public confession and how fast it unfolded once the evidence in the USADA file was made public. Don't tell me that any of you would have predicted the Oprah thing back in October. Just 2 weeks ago, nobody even thought he was capable of admitting anything, let alone having wronged people.

    - How hard the fall. I always thought he would keep a large share of his supporters, people and corporations, especially in the US. I mean, he did even after USADA said 26 people testified against him. Yet people still believed him, or at least defended him. Now I read mainstream press articles where you can go through 100s of comments before finding a single supporting one (the fact that 4 of his 7 or 8 remaining supporters worldwide are on this forum is amusing, though.)

    - The mainstream press turning against him. For a decade, they were the ones helping him keep the story alive. From publishing his mythical physical numbers to calling it a level-playing field, the cancer story, the Foundation, etc. From that to being called the world's biggest liar deserving of 28 Pinocchios on a scale of 1 to 4, in the newspaper that outed Richard Nixon:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/is-lance-armstrong-the-worlds-biggest-liar/2013/01/17/2d8fff7c-60fa-11e2-9940-6fc488f3fecd_blog.html







    Like I said, the whole thing is just stunning!

    Posted 3 months ago
  2. longslowdistance

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    Surely you have lived here long enough to have seen the "build them up then tear them down" cycle in the US press and public opinion. Betsy A. showing her emotions also plays into the narrative, with our puritan heritage outraged by a woman wronged. John Wayne would not approve.

    Posted 3 months ago
  3. Entheo

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    it has indeed been a stunning fall from grace. the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

    with less hubris he could have at least cushioned the blow, as evidenced by his expressed regret at not coming clean to USADA when he had the chance to take a 6 month ban. i was surprised at how much competing still means to him at 41.

    Posted 3 months ago
  4. Jah

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    you are right, Diesel, he crumpled like a can. I expected more of a fight, last night he sounded despondent and a little weird as he was singing his personal blues. Not that there is going to be any sympathy but I think what we saw on TV is just the beginning. It will get worse after this admission, he will be forced to settle with everyone financially

    Someone needs to tell Sole of the Dark Knight, polish, flicker and that other tool that they have been released from Livestrong servitude

    Posted 3 months ago
  5. Hey There

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    Just another cycle in life. Now the lawyers get to pick at it for a while. Once there's not enough money to mess with, they'll leave him alone.

    Posted 3 months ago
  6. Jah

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    he spent the better part of a fortune as a plaintiff and now he will spend the rest as a defendant

    How long till he's broke? $ is pouring out and nothing comes in

    Posted 3 months ago
  7. Inferno7

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    agree w/D

    LeMond VO2 max 95, Armstrong 82....doh
    Posted 3 months ago
  8. pretender

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    i know i've trotted this out before, but pretty much sums it up: "This is so American, man: either make something your God and cosmos and then worship it, or else kill it."

    Posted 3 months ago
  9. splitwheels

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    superfrenchie: I always thought the truth needed to come out but I have not even bothered to watch the Oprah interviews. This all seems so over the top and surreal. I thought Armstrong would just get sanctioned like Ullrich and the others. I never thought about the consequences of all of the collateral damage he caused to other people. That has to be paid for in some way. Greg Lemond lost a bike company and a fortune, ditto for the Andreus, so I suppose Lance has to suffer the same, but it is still too much to watch. I know I would start to feel sorry for the guy and then I would start second guessing my emotions. It all needed to happen, no doubt, but it is hard to be happy about. Hopefully the impact on the sport will be positive. A sad episode.

    Member: douche contingency
    Posted 3 months ago
  10. Orange Crush

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    What LSD said. A European outfit taking him down? I think not.

    Also, the mainstream press turning against him is also not stunning. To a large degree and with some exceptions, they're just riding the coat tails of whatever sells.

    The rest I agree with although there's perhaps more supporters or quasi-supporters out there than you can gauge from commentaries. We'll see.

    The wise man said follow me...and he walked behind.
    Posted 3 months ago
  11. bigcreek

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    Well stated French Diesel! Split - you summed up a lot of feelings there for sure as well. I am sure you guys are getting slammed as well with people coming up to you asking your thoughts on this whole ordeal, along with those astounded that we were the "lone voice in the wilderness" for years. It is almost like people don't think I am "crazy" any longer about this whole mess!

    Posted 3 months ago
  12. Polish

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    Two things have remained Rock Solid though Diesel:

    1) The TdF's 1999-2005 were Awesome displays of Awesomeness. Especially the odd years 99/01/03/05. And for good or bad - 1/2/3/4/5/6/7 in a row will never happen again.

    2) The Non-Doping Marginal Gain Approach will remain a Template for Victory for the Clean Riders in the peloton for decades at least.

    Posted 3 months ago
  13. 7tdf-SpearofLance

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    + Polish/Gus Also I might add, don't count your chicken's just yet. We don't even know anything about how much of what Lance said to Oprah was real. The entire interview was a commercial product of coercion. Lance would have said anything he needed to get his 76 million bucks in sponsorship back. It is not like he said anything of this under oath or to the WADA or USADA. He also did not say any particulars.

    Posted 3 months ago
  14. Polish

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    Diesel, I too am stunned by the backlash. I was on record after the Floyd e-mails saying "this will blow over" Fully expected Lance to weather the storm.

    But like Hurricane Katrina - it was not the storm itself that caused all the damage - it was the flooding afterword when the levies failed. But the Levies of Lance could not hold off the flood of hate. I truly thought they would hold.

    Posted 3 months ago
  15. rnddude

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    On the one hand, he did seem genuine in admitting his flaws. On the other hand, as so many have already pointed out, there was a lot that wasn't covered, OK I get that, but there were things said that smack of outright lies. Betsy got one thing very right...he is protecting people. Some of them I understand, Kristen, probably other girlfriends and close friends, etc. But of course the BIG ones not discussed or told untruths about were people like Johann, the UCI twin cronies, Ferrari, and all those in the supply chain part of the story. Could he be holding back that info as a barganing ploy for future consessions? Seems not out of the realm of possibilities.
    When under oath you are asked to swear "to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." Because he was NOT under oath for the interview, I suppose he was comfortable with the abridged version.

    "To be free and to live a free life - that is the most beautiful thing there is."
    Miguel Indurain
    Posted 3 months ago
  16. Yo Mike

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    LA lied under oath before; he can do it again. The beautiful irony is that he is in a position to be Top Rat, after ruthlessly dealing with anyone who questioned his Lies.

    How much does LA want the Cheese?

    Posted 3 months ago
  17. Entheo

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    polish: "1/2/3/4/5/6/7 in a row will never happen again."

    let's correct that shall we? 1/2/3/4/5/6/7 in a row never happened, and never will happen if the authorities are paying attention.

    7 straight tours without a jour sans... yeah, that was believable.

    Posted 3 months ago
  18. 7tdf-SpearofLance

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    + + + Polish "Levies of Lance could not hold off the flood of hate." Yes, even the best Tiger in the forrest can't live against the guns of a million hunters.

    Posted 3 months ago
  19. flicker

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    Lance made his sacrifice for all of us to forgive ourselves for our sins. His sacrificed his carreer for us, to prove he was clean 2.0 was put into effect. He sacrificed his life so that we can find a better way.
    APPRECIATE!!!

    Posted 3 months ago
  20. Keith RIchards

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    That was brilliant flicker...I know sarcasm when I see it. Good stuff! Glad to see you coming around.

    If Cancer Jesus could just find a way to hammer that third nail in on his own, he'd be straight.

    It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.
    Posted 3 months ago
  21. bldrgal

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    Oh Dark Sole/SOL, I don't reply to your drivel because I know you're only here to bait and life is too short to waste time on you, but to suggest that Armstrong's performance on Oprah was a result of coercion??? Now THAT'S funny!

    Posted 3 months ago
  22. pa biker

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    Polish - just a point of fact here: 1,2,3,4,5,6,6,7 has never happened.

    KR, I agree if the cancer jesus could just find that third rail. Wait that is't what you said.

    Posted 3 months ago
  23. Keith RIchards

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    I am still shaking my head at the whole thing. Between the downfall, and the lost decade at Le Tour...it is just crazy.

    How different things would have been if lance had been bounced like he should have in 1999 for testosterone...

    Posted 3 months ago
  24. george

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    Keith that era produced some of the most dramatic racing we've ever witnessed. Had LA been bounced another cyclist aided by rocket fuel would have won. Just put an asterisk next to the era rather than focus on one individual.
    I'll never forget Pantini vs. LA, it is what it was but it was exciting never the less.

    Posted 3 months ago
  25. Orange Crush

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    I don't know Keith. Looking at how many have been popped in TdF Top10 over those years, and this reconstruct of doping at Rabo over those years leads me to believe it would have been a crazy EPO fueled era regardless of Lance's presence as king-pin.

    http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/01/21/teruglezen-een-ploeg-als-zovele-over-gebruik-doping-bij-raboploeg/

    1996: Rabo enters the peleton as new team. Despite veteran and young talent they get brutally slaughtered in every single race and the reason for that is clear. Prior to TdF, the team is called together and decision is made to start doping program.

    1998: Following the Festina affair the doping program becomes more hush hush internally and there's a split in team between dopers and those who want nothing to do with it.

    2003: While the program has resulted in good results in one day races, Rabo is still way behind the riding clinics that dominate the TdF, Postal and T-Mob. Decision is made to ramp it up and hire outside talent, despite warnings from Riis to Raas about the Chicken.

    2007: The bubble bursts with events around Rasmussen.

    2009: Rabo management starts to axe those related to the doping program. Interestingly enough, and perhaps telling this is also when Rabo's results start going down. It's perhaps telling about what's still going on in the peleton.

    Posted 3 months ago

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