thank you 6ix. thank you

1. 

   Polish
   

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   PlanB, when Lance was an up and coming Jr he was nicknamed "WonderBoy". When Lance became a Pro the term "Lance Effect" came into being. There were very good reasons for those terms. Very true at those times.

   The future is anybodies guess. But I imagine Future Sport to be much more sympathetic to the Health of the Jock. Health Enhancements - the future equivalent of the past and now banned "Iron Shot" will become more acceptable.

   Who is in better shape at the age of 50? Athletes who "rode on water alone" or athletes who used illegal drugs/procedures to recover more effectively? Are dead and aging former NFL players healthier than when the future crop of players become dead and old?

   Lance may be looked back on as the turning point in the anti-doping crusade. A crusade that took a heavy toll. Will the 2013 TdF and the 2013 Giro and 2013 Vuelta be the healthiest Tours in a long time?

   Posted 3 months ago
2. 

   PlanB
   

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   ' … Who is in better shape at the age of 50? … '.

   I was with you till you there. Since we're looking at, in terms of numbers, a minor epidemic in pharmaceutical-related illness and death among pro and amateur cyclists in the past fifteen years (including Armstrong's own cancer, according to the oncologists I deal with on a regular basis) I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree. Right now, cured or not, Armstrong looks to me to be showing around his eyes some residual side-effects of long-term somatomedin-C toxicity. He looks much older than any forty-year-olds (including, like myself, some former pros) that I ride with. He certainly looks older than I do, and I'm nudging towards sixty. I can't say I rode on water alone, though. I ate biscuits.

   Posted 3 months ago
3. 

   chooks
   

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   I personal enjoy the "3 trolls". They truly state the "common sense" approach - in the Thomas Paine style of the phrase. The "typos" in their posts are hilarious, as is the grammatical/literal analysis found in response to them. One can easily imagine them stuck in the lance-stockade trying to make posts that sound like they are toeing the party line and using their errors as clever grammatical subterfuge. Maybe they are based in North Korea? Who knows (well, the mods do, I guess).

   At any rate -- it's hard to get worked up over people who very clearly are just trying to goad others. If you consider the forum a family, it's par for the course (and even better -- no wedgies involved!)

   - chooks

   Posted 3 months ago
4. 

   pa biker
   

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   No. Gurb was family, those guys were like annoying neighbors who were renting next door to you.

   Posted 3 months ago
5. 

   rnddude
   

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   +1 kidwok...

   "To be free and to live a free life - that is the most beautiful thing there is."
   Miguel Indurain

   Posted 3 months ago
6. 

   Orange Crush
   

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   +2 Kidwok. Well said, and importantly, concise.

   The wise man said follow me...and he walked behind.

   Posted 3 months ago
7. 

   archistu
   

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   Let's be honest here folks - SOL was 100% agent provocateur. SOL was an identity someone created for the sole purpose of engaging in a bit of absurdist hate-baiting and trolling. He was irritating to be sure, but is that seriously a reason to ban someone? There's an 'Ignore Member' option that we are all free to employ at our whim. Even more so, there is the simple choice to not respond to posts that are so obviously geared to do nothing but provoke agitated responses in whatever manner and from whatever direction one could imagine. But is the fact that his participation here was wholly disingenuous a reason to ban him? Wouldn't it be better if we all just ignored him long enough for him to get bored with the whole exercise? Banning people who are honest-to-god spammers is perfectly fine. Banning people who take pleasure from getting under our collective skin is something I've got a much harder time with. It takes two to tango, and that makes us almost as guilty as him. Maybe instead of banning someone because we don't like their behavior we should ourselves start behaving in a way to renders his actions pointless.

   Posted 3 months ago
8. 

   PlanB
   

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   Archistu, you stated perfectly what I was trying to get at but couldn't. Our fellow poster and my neighbor Elle Seven, with whom I was talking about the trolls this afternoon, put it even more succinctly: 'It's like junk food. The thing that pisses us off about that crap is that it's our hand that keeps reaching into the bag for more'.

   Posted 3 months ago
9. 

   madvax
   

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   He was irritating to be sure, but is that seriously a reason to ban someone?

   The comments made on the GL crash thread were completely inappropriate and went beyond just irritating. When a member continually thread jacks, flames, and posts inapproptiate comments, the MIB have a responsibility to maintain the integrity of the forum. In my opionion, the MIB acted responsibly.

   Posted 3 months ago
10. 

    flicker
    

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    The mighty 7tdfSpearO'Lance was an embodiement of my prince Lance Armstrong.
    As irritating as Lance might be to haterz, 7tdf was to the same haterz. I could blogon
    about 7tdf for hours but lets get back to Greg. He probably hit black ice. Happens all the time up north.
    Hope he recovers soon.. Very lucky to escape with the injuries he had.

    I hope that the Spear of Lance returns, he made a mistake, sure, but he needs to come back.
    For the sport.

    Posted 3 months ago
11. 

    dkri
    

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    I'm totally sick of these clowns. They're ruining the place. I've had all of them on ignore at various times but that just makes my experience here suck, because when they jump into some thread with their single monotonous tiresome ridiculous droning, the thread goes away. Many of us here have been contributing to what's a fairly unique and civil conversation for a long time. They are ruining that.

    If we were all at a party and these idiots were acting there like they do here, I would have left the party. If I was the host of the party, I long since would have asked them to leave. It's ridiculous.

    My opinion of them is irrespective of the only issue that appears to be the only thing that exists in their world. If they were as dogmatic, bombastic, prolific, and pervasive on any other topic, I would feel the same way.

    They aren't some brilliant comedic troupe, they aren't some dark look in the mirror for us all to learn something about ourselves, they are closed minded people who come here to try and slam one and only one agenda and point of view down our throats. It's not funny, it's not intelligent, it's just annoying. My tolerance for Socratic notions and some reflection on them keeping us intellectually honest or challenged or whatever is 100% gone. Much like I wish for the guy at the center of the topic, I wish they would just go away and not come back.

    For disclosure purposes, I am a partner in November Bicycles. This fact probably colors everything I say. I'm clearly not to be trusted.

    Posted 3 months ago
12. 

    flicker
    

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    dkrl, lets' be civil and agree to disagree.

    As far as Lance goes, anyone who bought into him is as guilty as he.

    fans, sponsors, coaches, wives, girlfriends, fellow pros, ex-pros, etc.

    Lance is not a Distant Mirror. He is a mirror for us to see ourselves in, pimples and all.

    Myself, I like looking at myself.

    So again, lets' agree to disagree.

    Peace out.

    f.

    Posted 3 months ago
13. 

    Keith RIchards
    

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    Just so everyone is aware, he has NOT been banned.

    He had his hand slapped and some posts deleted.

    It is his word versus ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility."--Lance Armstrong.

    Posted 3 months ago
14. 

    Polish
    

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    dkri, I think one solution would be for "SOL" to go back to being "Splitwheels". He was much more acceptable here using that persona. "If you can't beat them, join them" only works if you TRULY join them. Otherwise it is trolling at best, hateful at worst.

    Posted 3 months ago
15. 

    dkri
    

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    You do appreciate the contradiction of any one of your clique calling for civility, do you not?

    Posted 3 months ago
16. 

    Keith RIchards
    

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    +1 Polish.

    Posted 3 months ago
17. 

    flicker
    

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    Looking forward to seeing 7tdf, flaming spear, referring to himself (as 'My Lance', referred to himself, on OPRAH,) as:

    "Oh, that was that other guy."

    The therapy is working on Lance.

    Posted 3 months ago
18. 

    Hey There
    

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    /anyone who bought into him is as guilty as he/

    guilty of what?

    Posted 3 months ago
19. 

    PlanB
    

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    I understand what you're saying, dkri. I am just as revolted as you by these people. I just feel that since it's possible here, we should all man up, taking the responsibility to do our own censoring, rather than keep our hands clean by having someone do it for us. Each of us here is literally empowered [by the 'ignore' button] to neutralise the voices of those we'd rather not have to hear.

    Societies, of which this forum is a microcosm, never thrive in situations in which authority figures are left exclusively in charge of who speaks and who is silenced. KR has shown, I think, admirable, politic restraint in cuffing the troll in question for truly impenitent behavior. That cad will learn or he won't. It would have been a lot more satisfying to just excommunicate the f****r, and our forum lives would all be temporarily more pleasant for it, but it seems to me such a huge, huge misstep in the longer view, because it comes at the cost of confirming the very delusion that most intoxicates such people: that their words are powerful.

    Posted 3 months ago
20. 

    dkri
    

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    PlanB,

    I fully appreciate what you're saying, and I also think Elle's "no one can eat just one" analogy was dead spot on. Personally, this was my first engagement with this crew. I wish that Lance threads would stop proliferating, and I wish that people would stop engaging with the posters who I will refrain from calling names, but I can't really do anything about either. I just know that the only virtual community with which I'm currently engaged on a personal level (I interact with other cycling sites in "professional" guise, but my involvement here profoundly predates my involvement with cycling as a business) has been just gutted by these three or four (or maybe just one, who knows?) posters.

    Does Polish's having been banned from CyclingNews forums empower him here? I don't know, I certainly am in no position to argue against it. But I've also seen Polish actually engage in other topics recently. None of the others seem to have anything to say about anything except "witch hunts" and "+1" and "haterz" (the use of z instead of s to pluralize any word affects me irrationally, a personal issue to be sure, but it just reflects so poorly on the user).

    I didn't and don't actually advocate outright banning them. I do very much wish they would go away. When their answer to "Campy or Shimano?" or "which chain lube is best?" is "1/2/3/4/5/6/7," "500+++," "witch hunt!," or "haterz," I certainly don't see the value of their contributions. If, as Polish has done at least once today, they can at least endeavor to contribute to some topic other than THAT one, that would go some way. Why can they not do that?

    This forum has suffered a lot of I'll just say questionable things, from Gurb's ability to go 37 mph for hours on end to the stupid political arguments that never go away to this current morass, but people generally either learn to engage in a way that enriches the conversation or they go away. These guys do neither.

    Posted 3 months ago
21. 

    PlanB
    

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    I did it! They're gone!

    Posted 3 months ago
22. 

    rnddude
    

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    The recent absence (likely temporary) of S.O.L. does seem to have calmed down the rhetoric considerably. This forum is for me a place I visit almost daily, sort of a virtual man-cave (no offense to Elle, cycling chick, and Donna et all), so as such, when certain people arrive and pinch a big smelly pile, it is very hard not to hold my nose and point. In the future I will try to ignore the urge, and if that is impossible, I will attempt keep my responses as short as possible, perhaps even to one (civil) word. "poof" comes to mind...

    Posted 3 months ago
23. 

    carbon gecko
    

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    dkri
    Did it really affect you, or hurt the forum, in any way that Gurb claimed to have hit the front at 37 mph? I can see how some posters here can be annoying, but if someone claiming to ride at 37 mph "hurts" us then I think we need to grow some thicker skin.

    Posted 3 months ago
24. 

    dkri
    

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    No, of course it didn't hurt me, it was just ridiculous. I never took part in any of the conversations around it and usually got a chuckle out of it. I would say that it did hurt the forum a little bit, yeah, because he seemed like a good guy and that really precipitated his leaving in a huff.

    Fish stories are fish stories, of course, and they can of course be entertaining, although I do seem to remember Gurb taking big offense when he was questioned on it, and then as I remember it went downhill with people sort of looking for ways to take the piss out of him. The crocs, the couch, the pink bar tape - he actually seemed like a super nice guy, I always though I would have enjoyed meeting him, but that one claim seemed to sort of discolor the way a lot of people interacted with him. It was a funny inside joke, but it went bad over time.

    Mostly I was just looking for examples of things that people clung to that were questionable.

    I would say that my skin is thicker than you might guess, not very much really affects me. I've just reached my limit with the +1, 500++, 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10 bs, and it will be way too soon if I never see that stupid picture of Lance on his couch ever again.

    Gurb did post a lot, though, didn't he.

    Posted 3 months ago
25. 

    Polish
    

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    dkri - you forgot the "in a row" part. THAT is what makes it even so much more impressive. In a Row. Wiggins is already looking cross-eyed in his focus to go for 2 in a row. Lazer-Like? hardly. Heck, by the time Lance was Wiggans age, how many TdFs in a row had he already won? Lots.

    Maybe, dkri, you should not read any of the Lance Threads. There are plenty I know. Can't miss em. But maybe you should ignore the Lance threads. Hopefully people will stop starting them sigh. Splitwheels used to start PLENTY of Lance threads, until he stopped cold turkey. Maybe the other posters who seem to enjoy starting Lance threads should cool it too? Doubt it lol.

    Remember when the Lance threads used to get on Gurb's nerves? "Lets talk about the Moyer NOT Lance!" said Gurb lots of times. Gurb was and is cool.

    Posted 3 months ago

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