Think what would happen if they got someone like Manxman in the cockpit....
"To be free and to live a free life - that is the most beautiful thing there is."
Miguel Indurain
Miguel Indurain
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Cyslists can fly...literally
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rnddude, many years ago, when I was an undergrad engineering student, I pulled out my calculator and did some really simple calcs assuming a few numbers that I knew were good ballpatk numbers like a 50:1 glide ration being achievable, but close to the limit for lift drag efficiency in a real wing and making some guesses regarding mechanical efficiencies.
What I got was pretty interesting. If a man wanted to fly under his own power, the plane couldn't weigh over 100 pounds. It had to be powered by a racing level cyclist. I believe I did this in 1974. A few years later, MIT grad students came up with a 120 pound plane. It didn't fly. Gossamer Condor, the first, was 100 pounds and flew with a bike racer.
This helicopter backs up my numbers. Helicopters are less efficient but they got the weight down to about 70% of the Gossamer and so far are restricted to operating with ground effect.
Ah, fluids, physics! The good stuff.!
Ben
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Here's a case where a little EPO might have made the difference between $250,000 and the kids having to eat their cereal with water instead of milk :)
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http://www.agrc.umd.edu/gamera/
that's actually an older video. they've gone over a minute and almost 10' high. i wonder if the rider/flier does get tested?If you are not hallucinating, you are not trying hard enough -
That is a very cool article. Bonus points for an interesting and cycling related thread rnddude.
you need to also use your arms = eliminates 100% of pro cyclists that quickly.
$250K for 10 more seconds? That's a hell of a rough minute of work
You'd want an extremely fit cyclist that has solid upper body strength (that weighs as little as possible).
I think a fitter guy could have made 10 more seconds. He didn't even barf after the effort. His HR could have been 200 - just didn't look like he left 100% everything in the 'copter.
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Piloting/powering the Gamera looks like a job for a nordic skier.
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Skinny, thanks for the updated link. It's just a matter of time until they grab the prize. Oh, and sorry to all about the title typo, I didn't catch it in the allotted edit time....
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i wonder how they'll deal with the drifting problem.
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Very cool.
Two thoughts:
1) They might want to consider winglets at the ends of the props to prevent spill and increase lift.
2) They really need to talk to Graeme Obree about improving their ergonomic design.
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get rid of the hand crank and put on some Di2 gears and a recumbent rider like Sam Whittingham and you got yourself a winner.
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Jacques a recumbent position would put some undesirable torque into the structure through the back/butt of the operator. This would make the center section spin with the rotor wings and contribute to drift. Think of a engine powered helicopter’s rear rotor (or second counter-rotating rotor) to prevent this.
The way this team have arranged the drive forces helps to counterbalance unwanted torque into the system.
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thats cool
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Ideal human motor would be trained for 60 seconds of all out effort, and without that coming at the end of a 6 hour race. Like a kilo specialist. Too bad the IOC fired them to make room for BMX.
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Humans have a limited number of enzyme systems for contracting muscles. The most powerful is good for only about 10"' see Cav and a cheetah. The nest most powerful is good for up to about 50" in a trained athlete, see kilo guys and 400m runners. This is what made the kilo so hard back when the winning times were over a minute, and why the last 10" will be so hard for this prize. After 50" is more limited in power output, rule 5 or not. But maybe with drugs . . .
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TV, I was thinking the same thing about downward facing wingletts to prevent drift. I also think that eliminating the hand cranks would drop total weight and improve RPM, and with the correct athlete the total watts would still be better than the current setup.
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i wonder what wattage is required?
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At a guess, I think Mr. Obree would put the rider into an almost vertical position, which would eliminate the torque of a recumbent position. It would also allow the rider the ability to shift body weight to counteract drift.
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Biomechanical work done partly around the Gossamer project showed that for human power generation the best option is recumbent, legs, and that straight push/pull is more efficient than a circular pedal and crank. The more vertical the athlete gets the less efficient he becomes. I think the limiting factor is the athlete and the power required. I would think you maximize power generation and efficiency and then design around how to isolate torque, etc.
I also think these are some pretty smart guys who are way out ahead of the rest of the world right now. It is a bit odd for us to be armchair quarterbacking/engineering their design.
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Armchair engineering....it's how we roll.
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That's not flying. It never got 3 meters off the floor, and there was no control. Check out the top 10 low-pass flybys, if you can find 'em on YouTube. That's flying.
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