Anyone had any experience with Boyd wheels? I am thinking of picking up some racing wheels from them and wanted to see if anyone had any feedback.
http://boydcycling.com/index.html
$750 for 1200g 38mm tubulars? Wow!
Awful inexpensive. Begs the question, are the similar wheels from the big companies overpriced? Or are Boyd wheels low quality?
I think from my conversations with both Keith Williams and Boyd Johnson that other wheels are wickedly overpriced. Boyd told me of a guy on his team last year who raced on the 58 clinchers. He said "on my team last year we had a guy who was the best person I know at testing the strength of equipment. He is 190 pounds, quads like a tree trunk, and regularly maxes out the wattage on his power tap. He was on the 58mm carbon clinchers all year long with no issues at all, and also won almost a dozen Pro 1/2 races."
Also the Boyds use CX Ray spokes which have been shown to lace up to higher tensions and have longer revolutional lifespan than even a regular 14g bladed spoke. I think the fact that Boyd takes the time to research stuff like that speaks to the quality of his products. I have seen enough Zipps break to know that $$$ doesn't buy you durability and/or speed.
I sent Boyd a ? about who made his rims and who makes the Williams rims (he and Keith are friends) and will be interested to hear his reply.
Never have been a fan of micro front hubs. Those 15 mm diamater bearings just don't last or roll as well at larger ones like DT roll on. Other than the front hub, looks like a decent wheel for the price.
He may or may not be at liberty to say, and he may or may not choose to. I wouldn't hold it against him if he didn't. Unless I'm mistaken, he uses the same manufacturer that we use for our 38mm clinchers for all his rims.
As to the question of whether all other wheels are overpriced? It's a good question. Is seeing the wheels you use used by pro teams, or in the Tour, worth $1000+ to you? To some, it is, and an $800 or $900 wheelset that otherwise is more or less the same as an $1800 wheelset will never be worthy without that pedigree. My former team had a very good deal with Williams, and subsequently got a deal with Easton. Maybe 3 or 4 people took advantage of the Williams deal and about 2 dozen took advantage of the Easton deal, despite the Eastons being several hundred more per pair. For my money, I'd rather have the Williams. Easton hubs aren't that great and the rims are at parity at least. I don't love the Pillar spokes that Williams uses but they're certainly not bad at all. I am an enormous fan of Sapim spokes.
Most spokes will easily hold more tension than a carbon rim should be laced with. Sapims (we use Lasers) build really nicely, their lengths are consistently dead spot on, and however it works it's just easy to build a balanced wheel with them. The Lasers seem to twist less in building than DT Revos, which I also have used a lot.
The bullet point version:
1. Boyd, Revolution, Williams, my company - they all use very proven components that are meticulously sourced.
2. You pay a lot for 'non-product' stuff (marketing, overhead, supply chain) with more name
brand wheels. Whether this is worthwhile to you or not only you can decide.
Thanks for the informed response dkri. I think I am going to give the Boyds a try since I have some Williams already. Boyd Johnson does one hell of a job selling his product without overhyping it when you converse with him via email. That said Keith Williams does the same.
I live in SC and am from Greenville (where Boyd is from). I have talked to him several times and know a lot of people that ride Boyd wheels. Boyd knows his stuff and I haven't heard one complaint from ANYONE who rides a Boyd product (frame or wheels). Also, the company is run by Boyd and his wife and their customer service is top notch. You get the feeling that they know everyone they do business with. Also, weight to price, they can't be beat. I am buying the 38 mm tubulars just as soon as my tax money comes in. I was going to get the 20mm tubulars (1040 grams from under 800 dollars!) but Boyd talked me into the 38mm tubular because it is a better all around wheel.
I concur w/ Mike - i was wondering about the tiny front hub - wondering how torsionally stiff that would be. A 60g f.hub weighs like 120g less than a DA hub.
But yes, jeebus, those are crazy cheap.
If they had any significant advantages over my bullet proof cosmic carbonne SLs, I'd think about cragslisting the Mavics and picking up a pr of these. I think the 58s would be 200g lighter - looks like the bulk of the weight would be in the hubs.
I am looking at the 58s specifically for our Wednesday night world's which has a 10 mile run in on which an aero wheelset can be a big asset. Stinky - if you have issues with the front hub, email Boyd and I am sure he would reply with a detailed explanation of how he came to the decision use them.
And jlmitch1 - Boyd is quite the saleman and I've not found anything but rave reviews of his wheels online.
Hab, I have no doubt that Boyd is smarter than I when it comes to wheel design or engineering.
What I do know is that a larger circumference wheel of ANY type rolls with less rolling resistance than a smaller wheel. Bicycle related examples....650 vs 700 wheels. 26" vs 29" wheels. 10 tooth vs 11 tooth pulleys. Why trackies don't use 11s or 12s on back.
There is a formula out there someplace that states the rolling resistance of wheel/ball is a factor of the force on wheel divided by the radius of wheel. So, the smaller the radius, the large the rolling resistance.
I think I can safely say that the only reason a wheelbuilder chooses the American Classic-style micro front hub is for weight savings. They never chose that hub for durability or how it rolls.
His prices look very good, and I suspect his quality is pretty good, too. He's probably a good guy as well. All that said, I wouldn't be in any way surprised that one place he and others save significant money is on R&D. It's quite inexpensive and very effective to have the same Chinese company that makes carbon parts for the big boys make a few tweaks and re-badge it for you.
I suppose on some level you could see that as the democratization of high end parts market. The designer in me can't help but feel some of this borders on intellectual theft. As a fer-instance, the TT frame he sells looks disturbingly like a Cervelo.
On the other hand, the price is VERY tempting, and in a way, I kinda like the idea of the big boys getting some comeuppance for off-shoring everything...
Let's just say, I'm conflicted. Now, if that TT frame came in blue, I might be willing to be a lot less conflicted.
I have 3 pairs of Boyd Wheels, 50mm 58mm and 88mm tubulars. Overall they are all fantastic and have been very reliable. As a new company, Boyd's first year saw some changes as he figured out what worked best. He migrated from having radial laced Non Drive Side spokes in the rear to both sides being 2x. That allowed for a stiffer wheel and more even spoke tension. The new 2011 front hubs are also a little different. They have bigger bearings than the originals. The spoke flange is the same, but the bearings are bigger. Boyd has also transitioned to using self-locking nipples or basically nipples that thread locking compound already applied inside the threads instead of applying it after the build is finished. This helps keep the nipples from loosening from normal riding. I think these improvements have made the 2011 models very good and have addressed any problems of early wheels.
Here are the things that I like about Boyd wheels:
1. Great price for Great quality
2. The wheel are handbuilt in Greenville, SC. Not build by a robot in China.
3. The parts all come from proven manufacturers. You'll see the exact same rims on wheels that cost twice as much.
4. The rear hub has 6 pawls in the freehub body, rather than the usual 2. This adds strength when transitioning from coasting to pedaling.
5. The wheels are solid but light. I raced the 50mm and 58mm tubulars for a full 25+ race Cyclocross season and never once needed to true them.
6. Since all the hubs are the same between models, I never have to adjust my shifting when using different wheels. If I want to run a 88 in the back and a 58 in the front, it is just as easy as changing wheels.
7. Options, you can choose what rim depth you want or mix and match. other companies have less options.
8. Ease of service to the hubs, they are very easy to take apart if you ever need to replace bearings or re-lube the freehub body.
One thing to add. It was noted that Sapim spokes can handle higher tensions but more often than not, what limits spoke tension is the rim. Stan's rims for example will take 100kgf.
Hey jlmitch1
You do the WBL sufferfest last Saturday?
Steve
Nazgul, I've never done the winter bike league. What is it exactly? I hear a lot of people talking about it. I am going to do the Greenville Spring Training Series coming up. You?
Johnny
Hey Johnny,
Call up Carolina Triathlon and see what the schedule is this weekend. The UWBL (upstate winter bike league) is a controlled weekend ride that slowly ramps up the mileage over the winter. We typically have a few sprint zones and award a few vests for the overall winner and team winners. Pros get different points than say a CAT III so that you can be competitive even if you aren't a pro. It can be crazy. The first one last season I think we had 180 people show up. Typically it's about 70-90 folks. Pace is generally an enforced 20mph give or take. Attack zones are from 4 to 7 or 8 miles.
I think last weekend was 94 miles at 32 degrees. Real character builder, that one. I haven't been able to do any because of knee surgery in December. If you don't feel like doing that this weekend, come to Spartanburg and do the years 1st official "Assault on Mt. Mitchell" training ride. Gonna be 60 miles at about 20 mph. Also a 30 miler. I might do the 60, depending on my knee. Cost is 10 bucks but you get a hot meal after and sag support during. The WBL has sag support as well and cost 5 buck for the sag wagon's gas, etc. Good luck in the series. Writing a blog about my knee issue on the Assaults web page here if you want to check it out:
http://theassaults.blogspot.com/2011/01/dont-blink-i-dont-have-any.html
Later man! Hope to see you out there or here in Spartanburg sometime!
Steve
TV...didn't look at the frameset until you mentioned it. Chinese manufacturer sells it direct on Ebay.
Tai
Nazgul, that all sounds right up my alley...and PRO 1-2's don't scare me ;) I am actually coming to the upstate this weekend. Where and what time does WBL meet? If I can make it to it this weekend that would be great. Also, a 60 mile training ride for Mitchell sounds good (I did Mitchell the last two years, taking it off this year to focus more on racing). Any info you can give me about actual times and places to meet would be great. Maybe I'll see you out there.
Johnny
@stinky - I emailed Boyd about the front hub and this is what he said which I think makes sense:
"With the micro hub we can obviously save a good bit of weight on the front as well as increase the aerodynamics. A small hub will cut through the wind better than a larger hub. Also, since we are using very high quality Enduro sealed bearings (and 4 of them on the front) we are still able to keep a very low rolling resistance and have a service free hub. In fact I still ride my original hubs (from when I started the company) for my alloy training wheels that have been through hell (I train very hard) and have still not had to service the bearings at all. They still roll incredibly smooth."
What do you think? I know of several local guys who swear by their American Classic wheelsets which use micro front hubs.
Johnny
The GE ride leaves from 105 Franklin Avenue in spartanburg. Shop tel: 864-574-5273 It's on hwy 29 near Westgate mall. Actually turn right at the Appleby's if you leave the mall and go under I-26. It's on the left after the right. Starts at 9am. Shop is open at 8am with some food and coffee.
WBL leaves at 10 from 928 South Main Street Greenville. Shop tel: 864 331 8483. Boyd will be there. He's on the elite team and I'm on the club team of the same name. George H is usually there if he's in town. Don't know where he is now though. I'll be in sptbg this weekend, not greenville
Steve
Steve, are both of those rides on Saturday?
As I look out my window at the sleet, hail, freezing rain, and thunderbolts, I can only think on you both with the greenest envy.
Lochness the weather here today for me is 52 (although the ground is wet so I'll have to clean my bike and there will be 20mph winds when I start riding)...still far better than what you have :)
We've got 2 feet of snow on the ground, icy streets and this:
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